Are Veterans Better Than The Rest Of Us?

[BSM1]

You didn't do the spitting, did you?

No.

 

[Fool]

A common thread runs thru society regarding military types, both active & former....
- Special privileges, eg, discounts, free stuff, priority boarding planes.
- Being called "hero".
- Honorary license plates.
- Commercials advertising enlistment, glorifying combat & elite status.
- A thread here proposing that only veterans can vote.
- Denigration of "draft dodgers".

I picked <same status>.

Tooth-to-tail ratio - Wikipedia


with the growing technology, its going to be more machines and less actual biologicals doing hand to hand combat, or direct combat between two viable beings. much easier to kill a person from afar than to look your brother in the eye.


propaganda perpetuates the illusion.


you don't see the millions of people at home and on the battle lines fight poverty, crime, social injustice having the same respect.

 

[Fool]

I was barely out of High School. None of us understood much. Here, people my age couldn't get a job because of the likelihood of being drafted. Colleges were packed. I came close to going to Canada but got word that Americans weren't liked up there. There was a lot of noise about the police picking up Draft Avoiders trying to flee to Canada. In the end, I enlisted for an additional year and was assigned to Alaska. Several times I was told to expect orders to go to Vietnam but it never happened.

America, the war monger nation. I think the rich and powerful used the Military to accomplish their international goals... It was criminal.

power is the root of all evil.

very good insight

 

[BSM1]

I was barely out of High School. None of us understood much. Here, people my age couldn't get a job because of the likelihood of being drafted. Colleges were packed. I came close to going to Canada but got word that Americans weren't liked up there. There was a lot of noise about the police picking up Draft Avoiders trying to flee to Canada. In the end, I enlisted for an additional year and was assigned to Alaska. Several times I was told to expect orders to go to Vietnam but it never happened.

America, the war monger nation. I think the rich and powerful used the Military to accomplish their international goals... It was criminal.

Not that I am disagreeing with you, but what 'international goals' did the rich and powerful' accomplish in Viet Nam?

 

[Revoltingest]

I was barely out of High School. None of us understood much. Here, people my age couldn't get a job because of the likelihood of being drafted. Colleges were packed. I came close to going to Canada but got word that Americans weren't liked up there. There was a lot of noise about the police picking up Draft Avoiders trying to flee to Canada. In the end, I enlisted for an additional year and was assigned to Alaska. Several times I was told to expect orders to go to Vietnam but it never happened.

My experience differed....
In the year I got my lottery number (34), there was no longer a student deferment.
I worked several jobs....no shortage here.
Canuckistan sounded pretty welcoming.

America, the war monger nation. I think the rich and powerful used the Military to accomplish their international goals... It was criminal.

You don't blame the politicians who actually authorized the war?

 

[Revoltingest]

power is the root of all evil.

very good insight

Evil is the root of all evil.
Power just enables its expression.

 

[Revoltingest]

Tooth-to-tail ratio - Wikipedia


with the growing technology, its going to be more machines and less actual biologicals doing hand to hand combat, or direct combat between two viable beings. much easier to kill a person from afar than to look your brother in the eye.


propaganda perpetuates the illusion.


you don't see the millions of people at home and on the battle lines fight poverty, crime, social injustice having the same respect.

I'll believe the predictions of "surgical strike" easy victory kind of warfare when it actually happens.
It reminds me of continual exhortations that guns are obsolete in a war with a superpower.
Were that true, Ameristan, China, & Russia would be ditching small arms.
They'e not.
We shouldn't believe the illusion that war will go as planned,
be cost effective, & with minimal loss of life.

 

[Howard Is]

America, the war monger nation. I think the rich and powerful used the Military to accomplish their international goals... It was criminal.

You don't blame the politicians who actually authorized the war?

Dwight D Eisenhower had something to say about that.
@Enoch probably thinks he was a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.

From 1961, not long before the Vietnam War -

 

[David1967]

Special privileges, eg, discounts, free stuff, priority boarding planes.

No.

Being called "hero".

If they did something heroic then fine, if not then no. It's a volunteer army now.

Honorary license plates.

Why?

Commercials advertising enlistment, glorifying combat & elite status.

Blatantly dishonest and misleading. They should advertise showing the realities of those who didn't return home from the current conflict that we have no business in or returned home missing limbs and otherwise disfigured.

A thread here proposing that only veterans can vote.

That's simply stupid.

Denigration of "draft dodgers".

This is a bit more delicate. If you're talking about draft dodgers in a war in which our country is existentially threatened then with a few exceptions yes. If you're referring to a war we had no business being a part of in the first place like Vietnam (I heard a veteran of that war the other day say he was forced to take part in someone else's civil war) then that person should not be denigrated.

 

[Revoltingest]

Dwight D Eisenhower had something to say about that.
@Enoch probably thinks he was a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.

From 1961, not long before the Vietnam War -

Eisenhower was a politician.
One cannot take what they say as gospel.
He offered no evidence.

 

[MikeDwight]

Everything that is currently legislated in the South is like, Confederate Veterans will vote. All the monuments is Actually veteran money, for the memory of it. Confederate veterans are super in America.
Since we are Stuck over in Asia, I have to disclose, I think it is Sick that our education blocks out the millions of dead in horrible existential catastrophes in Asia and these wars. What do we talk about, and the full limit of information in roundtable and public discussion, you know, a few measly 40,000 casualties hundred thousands of ours served in these wars. There's a whole iceberg of discovery obviously. What were the goals of American Government in the wars?

 

[Howard Is]

Eisenhower was a politician.
One cannot take what they say as gospel.
He offered no evidence.

History has proved him right IMO.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is a bit more delicate. If you're talking about draft dodgers in a war in which our country is existentially threatened then with a few exceptions yes. If you're referring to a war we had no business being a part of in the first place like Vietnam (I heard a veteran of that war the other day say he was forced to take part in someone else's civil war) then that person should not be denigrated.

Even in a war for survival, if the country cannot inspire its military
with either patriotism or pay, it's reasonable to dodge the draft.
Why not have a massive transfer of wealth to those who actually
risk life & limb in combat to save their own country? Instead,
they're paid peanuts. I say pay whatever it takes for an all
volunteer military.

 

[Revoltingest]

History has proved him right IMO.

I've brought up this subject regularly on RF.
No one...not anyone...has yet offered any proof that there's
this conspiratorial MIC driving our foreign adventurism.
They've identified no industrialists or companies who
directed government to war with N Korea, N Vietnam, etc.

The better explanation is that voters reward politicians
with election & re-election for waging war. Dubya was
re-elected after starting 2 of'm. Obama was re-elected
after continuing'm. And Hillary, who voted in Congress
to start & continue'm had the most popular votes.
Face the terrible truth...Ameristanian voters like war,
especially when their party's President is waging'm.

 

[MikeDwight]

Luckiest country on earth, we in fact ,have never faced a Total War. Most countries have at least faced one Total War. You could call most of our wars chivalrous wars of good conduct with attendance medals. Russia lost 20 million. China lost 20 million. I mentioned Korea losing 3 Million. Germany's military itself losing 11 million, yet this insane number could kill 8 people to each of them, if you put in the holocaust, Poland, Russia.

 

[Valjean]

They are the same as everyone else.

Whilst they go to war to protect us, our freedoms, and our way of life. We stay here and maintain the infrastructure, commerce, etc that keep the gears of civilized society turning. It's a team effort, everyone has different roles to play, but all equally important. The burger flipper, trash man, fireman, auto mechanic, city engineer, soldier, entrepreneur, and politician. We all depend on each other in different ways to make this world work.

But they did not go to war to protect our freedoms. They went to war to secure and protect markets for corporate interests.
Most in the military didn't join for idealistic reasons. They joined for practical reasons -- education, lack of local opportunity, future job prospects, &c. All the patriotic pomp and circumstance is just window dressing.
Soldiers are corporate dupes, fighting for the rich and against the interests of the common citizen.

When was the last time there was an actual existential threat to the US? In actual fact, the greatest threat to American freedom and our way of life is our military adventurism itself.

The military generates the very enemies it claims to protect us from. Moreover, our adventurism has led to a decrease in freedom and security, to wit: The USA Patriot act, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and Department of Homeland security. The Transportation Security Administration surveils us at airports, NSA surveils our communications, Militarized police forces proliferate, as does a gun culture and fetish for assault style weaponry. Monies that could go into education, healthcare and infrastructure are soaked up, unquestioned, by the military.

Why does a vet get discounts and special privileges, while a bus driver does not? Which one makes the greater contribution to the general welfare?

We've become a police-surveillance state, addicted to war and militarism.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citzenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together. -- Dwight D Eisenhower"

 

[dianaiad]

My experience differed....
In the year I got my lottery number (34), there was no longer a student deferment.
I worked several jobs....no shortage here.
Canuckistan sounded pretty welcoming.

You don't blame the politicians who actually authorized the war?

Heavens no. that would mean getting mad at a Democrat. That would NEVER do.

 

[dianaiad]

Luckiest country on earth, we in fact ,have never faced a Total War. Most countries have at least faced one Total War. You could call most of our wars chivalrous wars of good conduct with attendance medals. Russia lost 20 million. China lost 20 million. I mentioned Korea losing 3 Million. Germany's military itself losing 11 million, yet this insane number could kill 8 people to each of them, if you put in the holocaust, Poland, Russia.

Mike.

Are you that completely ignorant of the history of our nation?

What would you call the Revolutionary war, the war of 1812, and the Civil War?

 

[Valjean]

I lost a fiance in Vietnam. I saw how the vets were treated when they came home. There is 'whining,' and then there is noticing...and talking about...what actually happens. I SAW vets being spat upon as they exited their planes. I SAW what happened at the funerals of soldiers; it makes what the Westboro Baptist idiots do look tame. I SAW the discrimination in jobs and everywhere else against VietNam vets.

I do not react well to people who call it 'whining' when pointing out that such things happened. Are veterans better than the rest of us? You betcha.

Veterans are those who abdicated their moral responsibility and joined an organization who's purpose was killing and destruction; an organization directly opposed to everything Christ taught. How are they better than the rest of us? They not only joined an immoral organization, but their actions harmed the very values they claim they were protecting.

I'm skeptical. I doubt there was much, if any, spitting, despite the widely circulated rumors among Republicans. As for the "baby killer" epithet, it was largely true. We were not liberators, nor was My Lai an isolated incident.

 

[bobhikes]

A common thread runs thru society regarding military types, both active & former....
- Special privileges, eg, discounts, free stuff, priority boarding planes.
- Being called "hero".
- Honorary license plates.
- Commercials advertising enlistment, glorifying combat & elite status.
- A thread here proposing that only veterans can vote.
- Denigration of "draft dodgers".

I picked <same status>.

I picked other even though it doesn't exist because it is a complex question grouping all veterans and all of us. There are plenty of non-veterans that have done amazing things and deserve a special status equal to or maybe higher than that of veterans. I splits Veterans into 2 categories below.


First of all just being a veteran of the Military is just a government job with benefits much of the public doesn't get so I vote them as no different.

Second a Veteran of a war or excursion whereby their life was on the line to protect Americans or American values this includes those in support roles for the ones in combat. Yes they deserve to be looked at as being special are they better than others who put their life on the line for others or values no but they are better than most of us.