Are you born again?

[lostwanderingsoul]

Many people put great emphasis on being "born again." They claim that they are born again when they accept Jesus or get baptized or meet some other requirement. The Bible says in John 3:6 "that which is born of the spirit IS spirit". And verse 8 says that if you are spirit you are invisible like the wind. So I ask all those who say they are born again, can you pinch yourself? If you can, then you are not spirit and if you are not spirit then you are not born of the spirit. And if I can see you then you are not invisible like the wind so you are not spirit and are not born again., Is it possible that we will be born again with new spirit bodies when Jesus returns and takes all the saved people to Himself? When you accept Jesus you are on the list of people who will be born again but you are not born again at that exact moment.

 

[wizanda]

John Nicodemus was a Pharisee; thus as someone deemed evil by Yeshua, he was saying the only chance you've got of entering heaven, is to be reincarnated (gilgul).

 

[Kenny]

Many people put great emphasis on being "born again." They claim that they are born again when they accept Jesus or get baptized or meet some other requirement. The Bible says in John 3:6 "that which is born of the spirit IS spirit". And verse 8 says that if you are spirit you are invisible like the wind. So I ask all those who say they are born again, can you pinch yourself? If you can, then you are not spirit and if you are not spirit then you are not born of the spirit. And if I can see you then you are not invisible like the wind so you are not spirit and are not born again., Is it possible that we will be born again with new spirit bodies when Jesus returns and takes all the saved people to Himself? When you accept Jesus you are on the list of people who will be born again but you are not born again at that exact moment.

This logic is beyond me. "Do you have a soul? Pinch yourself! If you can, then you don't have a soul."

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

This has nothing to do with a soul. The Bible is saying that if you are born of the spirit then you ARE spirit- no longer flesh and blood. Also you do not get a soul when you are born again. Don't you have a soul your whole life? Having a soul and turning into a spirit-being instead of a flesh and blood being are not the same.

 

[Kenny]

This has nothing to do with a soul. The Bible is saying that if you are born of the spirit then you ARE spirit- no longer flesh and blood. Also you do not get a soul when you are born again. Don't you have a soul your whole life? Having a soul and turning into a spirit-being instead of a flesh and blood being are not the same.

And you are wrong. Where did it say you are no longer flesh and blood? And where does it say that if you are born-again "you are spirit" or did it say, "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit and that which is born of the flesh is flesh". Two completely different statements. Born-again - is your born-again spirit because God is a spirit and your flesh is still flesh because of yo' mama and yo' papa

 

[Etritonakin]

Nothing says spirits can't pinch themselves -but I get your point

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Many people put great emphasis on being "born again." They claim that they are born again when they accept Jesus or get baptized or meet some other requirement. The Bible says in John 3:6 "that which is born of the spirit IS spirit". And verse 8 says that if you are spirit you are invisible like the wind. So I ask all those who say they are born again, can you pinch yourself? If you can, then you are not spirit and if you are not spirit then you are not born of the spirit. And if I can see you then you are not invisible like the wind so you are not spirit and are not born again., Is it possible that we will be born again with new spirit bodies when Jesus returns and takes all the saved people to Himself? When you accept Jesus you are on the list of people who will be born again but you are not born again at that exact moment.

Okay, I think the problem here goes back to how you're reading verse 8...

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Verse 8 is saying that the Spirit goes where He wishes, we cannot tell who is born of the Spirit. It doesn't say anything about being invisible, it is saying that we do not know who the Spirit chooses to give new life, or is born again.

Your entire logic is based on this misreading of verse 8, it really doesn't say what you're trying to make it say.

As to being born again as a future event, this doesn't make sense when reading 1 Peter 1:

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

"Being born again", Peter is telling the Christian reader that they are already born again, incorruptible.

Other parts of Scripture tell us how we are dead in our sins. Do you see why we have to be born again? We are dead in our sin! We need new life, and only the Holy Spirit can give that to us. We cannot tell where He will go, or who He will raise from death to life.

 

[Kenny]

Okay, I think the problem here goes back to how you're reading verse 8...
...

You said it so much better than I did. Thank you.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Where does it say you can be both flesh and blood and also spirit at the same time.? When you are born of the flesh you Are flesh but when you are born of the spirit you ARE spirit. And what about verse 8 that says you will be invisible like the wind. All those people who claim to be born again are still visible so they must not be born again.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Where does it say you can be both flesh and blood and also spirit at the same time.? When you are born of the flesh you Are flesh but when you are born of the spirit you ARE spirit. And what about verse 8 that says you will be invisible like the wind. All those people who claim to be born again are still visible so they must not be born again.

Where does it say you will be invisible like the wind? I posted the verses in my own post, it literally doesn't say that.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Verse 8 seems pretty claer actually. It is not talking about the spirit. It says everyone who is born of the spirit will be like the wind.

 

[Kenny]

Where does it say you can be both flesh and blood and also spirit at the same time.? When you are born of the flesh you Are flesh but when you are born of the spirit you ARE spirit. And what about verse 8 that says you will be invisible like the wind. All those people who claim to be born again are still visible so they must not be born again.

In multiple areas:

Jesus said "That which is born of the flesh is flesh". Are you born of the flesh of yo mama and yo papa? - Then you are flesh.
He also said "That which is born from above (Spirit) is spirit".

He also said, "Matt 26:41 Watch and pray , that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Of course, Jesus said, while in his body, "Unto thee I commend my spirit". He obviously was in a body on the cross at the same time he is commending his spirit".

There are other scriptures such as being a spirit, having a soul and living in a body, but the three are sufficient.

 

[Kenny]

Verse 8 seems pretty claer actually. It is not talking about the spirit. It says everyone who is born of the spirit will be like the wind.

Only if you pluck it out of context and read into it what isn't there. Where did it say you are no longer flesh?

 

[Awoon]

"born again" aka generated from above. Must be everyone, we be Stardust.

 

[kepha31]

Some say by accepting Jesus as your personal savior, you are born again.
Some say you must have an emotional upheaval followed by a change in lifestyle to be born again.
I am not against any of this. They have their place. But without water baptism, there is no biblical "born again". It's become a cliche for a specific group of evangelicals.
Jesus makes it explicitly clear.:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Nowhere in scripture, re: baptism, is water separated from Spirit.
Nowhere in scripture is "Spirit" used symbolically.
Jesus is not separating the two.
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Peter is not talking about the "word of God" as restricted to a written text that did not yet fully exist. Peter and the Apostles (who were given the word of God) were commissioned by Christ Himself to baptize, so for Christians it shouldn't be an option, that is, if you want to be truly born again.
Scripture citations, Church Fathers

 

[Kenny]

Some say by accepting Jesus as your personal savior, you are born again.
Some say you must have an emotional upheaval followed by a change in lifestyle to be born again.
I am not against any of this. They have their place. But without water baptism, there is no biblical "born again". It's become a cliche for a specific group of evangelicals.
Jesus makes it explicitly clear.:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Nowhere in scripture, re: baptism, is water separated from Spirit.
Nowhere in scripture is "Spirit" used symbolically.
Jesus is not separating the two.

That certainly is an internal debate between evangelicals. Both say you should be baptized in water, but one side says it isn't a requirement for being born-again.

There are scriptures that uses water as a symbolic picture of the Word--in other words of The Spirit and The Word. I am of that persuasion but certainly stand by the necessity of being baptized in physical water.

I prefer not arguing about it because both sides stand by the need of baptism in water as depicted in Acts 10 and 19 and others

 

[bain-druie]

This is under 'General Religious Debates', but it seems to me to be an internal Christian debate, which is a different category.

Speaking at least from my pagan druid perspective, we believe in rebirth as part of a cycle, rather than a one-time event, and it's nothing like the biblical concept, which is clearly drenched in the usual Hellenistic Dualist either-or argumentation: either you *are* born-again, or you're not; either you go to heaven, or to hell. Either you have to be baptized to be saved or not. Either this or that, on into eternity.

Either-or theology is not only doomed to frustrated round-and-round we go argumentation, it's also very limiting. How much more honoring to your faith to think outside that annoying paradigm? Spirit and flesh mutually coexist in this realm, you seem to agree on that much. What's the big deal, then?

 

[Kenny]

This is under 'General Religious Debates', but it seems to me to be an internal Christian debate, which is a different category.

Speaking at least from my pagan druid perspective, we believe in rebirth as part of a cycle, rather than a one-time event, and it's nothing like the biblical concept, which is clearly drenched in the usual Hellenistic Dualist either-or argumentation: either you *are* born-again, or you're not; either you go to heaven, or to hell. Either you have to be baptized to be saved or not. Either this or that, on into eternity.

Either-or theology is not only doomed to frustrated round-and-round we go argumentation, it's also very limiting. How much more honoring to your faith to think outside that annoying paradigm? Spirit and flesh mutually coexist in this realm, you seem to agree on that much. What's the big deal, then?

It was a friendly sharing. And very happy that you shared your point of view too.

 

[Kolibri]

As to the thread title question: no, I am not born again. And yet I am content.

 

[Kenny]

As to the thread title question: no, I am not born again. And yet I am content.

I wonder, sometimes, if people can be born-again and don't even know it. I have shared with some people before who I knew they had a relationship with God but because they never read the Bible, they didn't know it.