Are you born again?

[roger1440]

It is better translated as being “born from above” rather than “born again”. The Greek word anōthen can mean either above or again. It is a homonym in Greek. A homonym is two or more words that are spelled exactly the same, pronounced exactly the same but have different meanings. Stalk may refer to a bean stalk or it may refer to follow/ harass a person. English has no equivalent for anōthen. When those verses are translated into English its meaning is lost.

 

[Skwim]

Yes... I am quite new and have not read anything on this subject. Perhaps along the line of fate, which I have thought through... seems like the argument is the same.

I say circular in the sense of... "You see? You change your mind... you have free will!" - and the response would be "No, you were determined to change your position!" Circular in the sense that I don't see how one can prove to the other that they are correct.

Here's a thread I posted about 3-4 years ago that outlines my argument for determinism and against freewill. I invite you to read it through. Won't take that long. I also invite you to read the other posts that follow my OP statement.

Click HERE

 

[Kenny]

Here's a thread I posted about 3-4 years ago that outlines my argument for determinism and against freewill. I invite you to read it through. Won't take that long. I also invite you to read the other posts that follow my OP statement.

Click HERE

I'm not sure what "won't take that long" means with 25 pages of posts.

Did read the first couple of pages. Quite frankly, it follows what I said in post 141:

"I say circular in the sense of... "You see? You change your mind... you have free will!" - and the response would be "No, you were determined to change your position!" Circular in the sense that I don't see how one can prove to the other that they are correct."

I don't want to derail the subject matter on "Born again" -- would you like me to give some thoughts on that thread?

 

[Kenny]

It is better translated as being “born from above” rather than “born again”. The Greek word anōthen can mean either above or again. It is a homonym in Greek. A homonym is two or more words that are spelled exactly the same, pronounced exactly the same but have different meanings. Stalk may refer to a bean stalk or it may refer to follow/ harass a person. English has no equivalent for anōthen. When those verses are translated into English its meaning is lost.

great point

 

[Skwim]

I'm not sure what "won't take that long" means with 25 pages of posts.

Only meant for you to read my opening post.

Did read the first couple of pages. Quite frankly, it follows what I said in post 141:

"I say circular in the sense of... "You see? You change your mind... you have free will!" - and the response would be "No, you were determined to change your position!" Circular in the sense that I don't see how one can prove to the other that they are correct."

I don't see this because, as I said, it isn't something capable of being proven, and I believe my reasoning for determinism is far better than any reasoning in support of freewill. And being two fairly independent arguments---neither dependent on the other--I fail to see the circular nature.

"Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade."
Source: Wikipedia.​

I don't want to derail the subject matter on "Born again" -- would you like me to give some thoughts on that thread?

Sure. Being born again is a strange event some Christians say one has to experience in order to avoid going hell. Not believing in hell, it's a moot point with me. Mox nix!

 

[Kenny]

1. Only meant for you to read my opening post.
   [*]I don't see this because, as I said, it isn't something capable of being proven, and I believe my reasoning for determinism is far better than any reasoning in support of freewill. And being two fairly independent arguments---neither dependent on the other--I fail to see the circular nature."Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade."Source: Wikipedia.
   [*]Sure. Being born again is a strange event some Christians say one has to experience in order to avoid going hell. Not believing in hell, it's a moot point with me. Mox nix!

1. Ok
2. That was what I was trying to say in the statement that ultimately no one can provide proof for either answer. Your quoted definition fits good too.
3. OK. I like saying that being born again connects you with the Creator and makes you one. It's a great life. I will post on the other thread