Are you Certain There is no God?

[Nakosis]

Necessary? Necessary for what exactly? Is anything necessary? Without food, the physical body loses life. So? That happens to all physical bodies at some time, no?

I'm not saying there aren't necessary things. Just that I don't see God being amoung them.

If any theist or atheist suddenly had an epiphany that the others side was right, exactly what would happen?

I'd imagine they'd change their mind. seems to happen often enough that it is not unusual. I suspect it would require some catalyst, people don't usually change their mind for no reason. In fact I'm not sure if there is any choice to believe or not believe. It's just where we happen to find ourselves.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

What is eternal life and why should we want it? Is not one life good enough?
I've thought about Heaven before but I really don't know what it is. Not knowing anything about it, I don't know why I'd what it.



I'm not trying to prove there is no God. What I am saying is that from my personal perspective is that I have no knowledge of a God to place belief in. Nothing whatsoever to do with any other atheist. This is my personal view. Other atheists may have similar views or different views. I don't speak for anyone else.



Ah... I see. You want, need to do more things. You don't think one lifetime can fulfill your needs.

I'm happy with my life. I'm satisfied with it. I don't need more.

I don't believe you go to heaven but it would be really nice to live longer than about 80yrs, what about those who have a life full of suffering or kids that die before they reach their 5th birthday it would be great if they could have better or more. Not everyone is lucky enough to have been given a life they are satisfied with.

 

[epronovost]

Oooohh! Please, could you provide that trivially easy proof of the existence of many gods right here? I mean, there are so many of us who've been looking for this forever. Really, you'd be doing us all a huge favour!

How about every single god-king in history like Egyptian pharaoh or several Mesopotamian kings, or solar cults or even animistic cults that revere totemic animals or other features of nature. That's not even goin into pantheistic territory. Will you deny the existence of the universe? A god is first and foremost something or someone that is worshipped and is considered "above" the worshiper. It doesn't need to have special powers or be supernatural.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

How about every single god-king in history like Egyptian pharaoh or several Mesopotamian kings, or solar cults or even animistic cults that revere totemic animals or other features of nature. That's not even goin into pantheistic territory. Will you deny the existence of the universe? A god is first and foremost something or someone that is worshipped and is considered "above" the worshiper. It doesn't need to have special powers or be supernatural.

So what you seem to be saying is: "if somebody worships something or someone, that worshipped entity becomes a god -- by definition." So, when the Britons of Colchester, in the mid 40s CE, proclaimed Claudius to be a god, he became one? Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Revoltingest]

I am certain that there are no gods.
But I can't in any way prove this.
So logically I lack certainty.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you say "we should" ... is it not better to just "speak for your self?"

Why do you say "we should" ... is it not better to just "speak for your self?"

Why do you say "we are just believing" ... is it not better to just "speak for your self?"

I was not speaking for myself, I was stating my general opinion.

Perhaps I should have stated it a little differently, but it is nothing to to get in a huff about.

Restated:

Meandflower said: Belief in a loving god gives Hope to life. it gives comfort. It gives meaning to life. It gives safety.

Trailblazer said: In my opinion, it is not wise to believe in God for those reasons. I think it only makes sense to believe in that for which there is evidence. Otherwise one is just believing in a fantasy.

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you think the evidence for God is? I believe that the creation declares the majesty of God.

I believe that the Messengers of God are the evidence for God.

 

[Dave Watchman]

What is eternal life and why should we want it? Is not one life good enough?

Not for me. I never run out of stuff to do. I only run out of time to do it.

I've thought about Heaven before but I really don't know what it is. Not knowing anything about it, I don't know why I'd what it.

I can check it out and let you know. Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. Plus I always wanted to sail a boat. The kind with rigging and sails. Sail it around the world. Sail it through a storm. It should be all the more fun knowing I won't drown myself.

I'm not trying to prove there is no God. What I am saying is that from my personal perspective is that I have no knowledge of a God to place belief in. Nothing whatsoever to do with any other atheist. This is my personal view. Other atheists may have similar views or different views. I don't speak for anyone else.

I'm sure all Atheists are not the same. But some that I read here speak about being angry with God. They'll say things like "if there is a God, I've got a bone to pick with Him". It's almost like they are acknowledging that there is a God, but He's not the God that they want Him to be.

If i was an Atheist, I wouldn't even be on this forum debating it. I would be out making money, or spending it, or eating something, or playing with my stuff. I wouldn't give a care in what anyone else believed.

Ah... I see. You want, need to do more things. You don't think one lifetime can fulfill your needs.

Nope. And there's going to be billions of brothers and sisters and holy angels in God's Kingdom to get to know.

And I should also have another chance at my Mom's stuffed green peppers.

I'm happy with my life. I'm satisfied with it. I don't need more.

I've been pretty lucky too.

But to be in the Kingdom is different.

Think about it man, to be a true member of the Family of God.

"For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.​

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not saying there aren't necessary things. Just that I don't see God being amoung them.


I'd imagine they'd change their mind. seems to happen often enough that it is not unusual. I suspect it would require some catalyst, people don't usually change their mind for no reason. In fact I'm not sure if there is any choice to believe or not believe. It's just where we happen to find ourselves.

I concur that it's not a choice, but more a factor of the experiences we were dealt.

 

[epronovost]

So what you seem to be saying is: "if somebody worships something or someone, that worshipped entity becomes a god -- by definition." So, when the Britons of Colchester, in the mid 40s CE, he became one? Is that what you are suggesting?

Well yeah, for the people worshipping the thing or person that thing or person is a god.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

I think there is a compelling reason that the human race is gradually coming to realize.

By ditching a virtuous lifestyle taught by the Prophets, we have introduced many physical, mental and social illness that are breaking up our families, destroying our societies and corrupting our politics leading to major catastrophes such as the two world wars.

Society is rife with drug and alcohol addiction, suicide, crime and domestic violence. This is the result of us choosing to go our own way. So destructive are our choices, that I believe in time, we will learn from this that only God’s paths of a virtuous life can possibly rescue our civilisation from the quagmire it has fallen into.


There are no shortcuts. We need to change or be forced, for our own survival to change. We may have to be pushed to the precipice to realise just what a price we’ve had to pay for ignoring the wise counsels of the Prophets of God.

So we don’t need God? What is God? Nobody knows. All we know of Him is He sends Representatives from His World to ours to offer us guidance. We are, of course, free to reject their advice. Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, Zoroaster, the Bab and Baha’u’llah were sent to assist us. These Great Teachers what did they teach us collectively that we should ditch?

1. Universal love for all humanity
2. To have a pure heart
3. Physical cleanliness
4. Avoidance of alcohol and habit forming drugs
5. Moderation
6. Detachment
7. Selflessness
8. Brotherhood
9. Gratitude
10. Friendship
11. Loving kindness
12. Compassion
13. Justice
14. Mercy
15. Courtesy
16. Abstinence from conflict and contention
17. Freedom from prejudice
18. To cause no harm
19. Non violence
20. Not to backbite and gossip
21. To not steal
22. Not to kill
23. To respect the rights of others
24. Trustworthiness
25. Truthfulness
26. Integrity
27. Fairness
28. Courage
29. Wisdom
30. Inner peace

These and so many more teachings came from God through His Prophets in the form of laws, counsels and exhortations and if you examine present day society , you will find that the lack of adherence to these very qualities and teachings are what is the cause of the breakdown of society.

Just because we can’t know God directly, doesn’t mean we should ignore His Representatives, as we need these virtues for individuals, the community and our institutions to function properly.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well yeah, for the people worshipping the thing or person that thing or person is a god.

I think you need to look more carefully into what you are saying. Surely you can see that there is a difference between "what is" and "what I think is."

 

[epronovost]

I think you need to look more carefully into what you are saying. Surely you can see that there is a difference between "what is" and "what I think is."

On that point no there is no difference. "God" doesn't have a hard definition with finely agreed upon characteristics. The only point in common in all deities that humanity ever had was that they were all worshiped and considered above men and mankind in general. That, depending on the time and place, included animals, the universe in general, kings, objects like statues and idols, etc. It's not because X is the god of people Y that it needs to also be the god of people A or that said people even view X as a god at all, let alone their god. That doesn't make X any less of a god to people Y though and thus, from an anthropological point of view, X is a god, just not a universally worshiped one.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

On that point no there is no difference. "God" doesn't have a hard definition with finely agreed upon characteristics. The only point in common in all deities that humanity ever had was that they were all worshiped and considered above men and mankind in general. That, depending on the time and place, included animals, the universe in general, kings, objects like statues and idols, etc. It's not because X is the god of people Y that it needs to also be the god of people A or that said people even view X as a god at all, let alone their god. That doesn't make X any less of a god to people Y though and thus, from an anthropological point of view, X is a god, just not a universally worshiped one.

A wonderful amount of bafflegab, but you refuse to address the only real question. That question is not "if something is worshipped as a god, does that make it a god to the worshipper?" The answer to that is a tautology, and not even worth pursuing. The real question is, rather, "if something is worshipped as a god, does that make it -- in actual fact and reality -- a god?"

 

[epronovost]

A wonderful amount of bafflegab, but you refuse to address the only real question. That question is not "if something is worshipped as a god, does that make it a god to the worshipper?" The answer to that is a tautology, and not even worth pursuing. The real question is, rather, "if something is worshipped as a god, does that make it -- in actual fact and reality -- a god?"

There are no such thing as "universal god" or complete and precise definition of god. Your second question is thus not even wrong. You might as well ask how many angles a circle has. What is or isn't a god is a question of opinion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

It sounds as if atheism makes sense to you in the same way theism makes sense to me. It works for you as theism works for me. Being convinced of the truth of something doesn’t make it right for either of us. Whether or not someone can convince us to change our minds isn’t really a proof of anything.

 

[Brian2]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

There is less reason to see Harry Potter as a real person because he is a fictional character for sure.

3D Animations - Replication: Mechanism of Replication (Advanced) - CSHL DNA Learning Center
I recon there is a designer.
Have you ever asked God to show you that He is real? Maybe you should.
The Bible tells us that we cannot please God without faith. That would make sense since our motivation for what we do would probably be to please ourselves. But of course in the end it is God who judges us and decides about our lack of faith being a determining factor in how we are judged.
Certainly faith in Jesus is, in the Bible, a determining factor in how God sees and judges us.

 

[Skywalker]

I believe that the Messengers of God are the evidence for God.

Why do you believe that? I believe that because I believe that God speaks to us through His word.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you believe that? I believe that because I believe that God speaks to us through His word.

I also believe that Messengers speak for God because I believe that God speaks to us through His word.

“The Person of the Manifestation hath ever been the representative and mouthpiece of God. He, in truth, is the Day Spring of God’s most excellent Titles, and the Dawning-Place of His exalted Attributes. If any be set up by His side as peers, if they be regarded as identical with His Person, how can it, then, be maintained that the Divine Being is One and Incomparable, that His Essence is indivisible and peerless? Meditate on that which We have, through the power of truth, revealed unto thee, and be thou of them that comprehend its meaning.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 70

 

[Quintessence]

Oooohh! Please, could you provide that trivially easy proof of the existence of many gods right here? I mean, there are so many of us who've been looking for this forever. Really, you'd be doing us all a huge favour!

I mean, I've already done that multiple times on the forums. And every time I get told "but that isn't what gods are" or some other variety of "that doesn't count because reasons." I get tired of bothering. It doesn't matter how many times I explain that polytheistic gods are personifications of various natural and social forces that are literally studied by the sciences and the arts alike. Doesn't matter how many times I try to convey that Sun is the most deified aspect of nature throughout human history. Doesn't matter how often I point out the complexities of ontology or foundational assumptions related to thereof. Folks have their vested worldview - monotheist and "atheist" alike - and will ignore anything I present every time (with very rare exceptions).

Now, I don't have a problem with folks having a vested worldview. But I have more respect for monotheists and atheists who acknowledge that other people's gods are... well... their gods. You can keep to your worldview while acknowledging the validity of someone else's. Because ultimately, deification is an attribution, not some innate quality something has.