Are you Certain There is no God?

[Skywalker]

I also believe that Messengers speak for God because I believe that God speaks to us through His word.

“The Person of the Manifestation hath ever been the representative and mouthpiece of God. He, in truth, is the Day Spring of God’s most excellent Titles, and the Dawning-Place of His exalted Attributes. If any be set up by His side as peers, if they be regarded as identical with His Person, how can it, then, be maintained that the Divine Being is One and Incomparable, that His Essence is indivisible and peerless? Meditate on that which We have, through the power of truth, revealed unto thee, and be thou of them that comprehend its meaning.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 70

Do you believe that Bahaullah will fulfill the prophecies in a way different from Christians and Jews believe the Messiah will?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you believe that Bahaullah will fulfill the prophecies in a way different from Christians and Jews believe the Messiah will?

I believe that whatever prophecies have not been already fulfilled by Baha'u'llah will be fulfilled as they were written by the Prophets.

 

[Skywalker]

I believe that whatever prophecies have not been already fulfilled by Baha'u'llah will be fulfilled as they were written by the Prophets.

Isn't that agreeing that Jesus is the Messiah, because Bahaullah might not have returned in 1844?

 

[Trailblazer]

Isn't that agreeing that Jesus is the Messiah, because Bahaullah might not have returned in 1844?

No, it is not admitting that. Baha'u'llah did not declare His mission in 1844, it was the Bab who came in 1844 and ushered in the Messianic Age. Nine years later, Baha'u'llah received His Revelation from God in the Black Pit Prison, and in 1863 He declared that He was the Promised One, the Messiah, the return of Christ.

Shoghi Effendi has shown us what Prophecies Baha'u'llah has fulfilled.

Baha'u'llah was "to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ)"

The Bab "was none other than the promised Qá’im (He who ariseth), the Sáhibu’z-Zamán (the Lord of the Age), Who assumed the exclusive right of annulling the whole Qur’ánic Dispensation".

Regards Tony

#130 Tony Bristow-Stagg

 

[Skywalker]

No, it is not admitting that. Baha'u'llah did not declare His mission in 1844, it was the Bab who came in 1844 and ushered in the Messianic Age. Nine years later, Baha'u'llah received His Revelation from God in the Black Pit Prison, and in 1863 He declared that He was the Promised One, the Messiah, the return of Christ.

Shoghi Effendi has shown us what Prophecies Baha'u'llah has fulfilled.

Baha'u'llah was "to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ)"

The Bab "was none other than the promised Qá’im (He who ariseth), the Sáhibu’z-Zamán (the Lord of the Age), Who assumed the exclusive right of annulling the whole Qur’ánic Dispensation".

Regards Tony

#130 Tony Bristow-Stagg

If he returned in 1844, what prophecies did he not fulfill?

 

[Clara Tea]

The Garden of Eden is hallowed ground. God ordered that no one attack Iraq (source: bible, revelation). Eden is (or was) in Iraq between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. There were a huge amount of pottery shards there, which showed that an ancient civilization had been there, but it exists no more.

Tank tracks and bomb craters now litter Eden (God's hallowed ground).

Either Revelation told in advance what had to be true at some time in the future, or the Bush presidents (George Herbert Walker Bush and son, W. Bush) decided to cast themselves in the role of Satanic demons from hell, the dragon and the beast (father and son: source bible, revelation). Both Bush presidents had constant input from Reverend Billy Graham.

It is possible that the Bush presidents wanted to end the world (which is part of God's wrath for attacking Iraq, according to the bible, revelation). But, they would have to take on the persona of Satanic demons from the foul bottomless pit of hell to carry off that apocalyptic vision of the future.

Or, it might be that every word of Revelation came true without the Bush presidents trying to prove that they were demons from hell.

If Revelation is true, that likely proves God's existence. The very fact that Revelation predicts the end of the world is what proves that religion is correct .

 

[Trailblazer]

If he returned in 1844, what prophecies did he not fulfill?

The Bab appeared in 1844 to announce the coming of Baha'u'llah and to usher in the new age, the Age of Fulfillment. That marked the beginning of an entirely new religious cycle, called of Baha'i Cycle. Then nine years later Baha'u'llalh appeared and fulfilled the prophecies for the Second Coming of Christ and the Messiah.

The prophecies that have not yet been completely fulfilled are the prophecies for the Messianic Age. The remainder of the prophecies will be fulfilled during is age. We are only at the very beginning of the Messianic Age which will last thousands of years.

 

[Heyo]

All these things exhibit purposes in nature:


Consider the hands. They are skillfully useful for the intellect to work with.

Consider the legs and feet. They work in conjunction with your will to move, lift, stand, run, and work.

Consider the eyes. They allow us to see what we are doing. To identify objects and realities.

Consider the mind. It conceives from perception and constructs from reason and imagination. It forms memories for many reasons.

You are self aware.

Consider the ears that bring forth the sounds of actuality.

Consider language and the ability to vocalize.

Consider the fruits and vegetables that are vital to the nutrition of the human body.

Everything the body can do is organized for the convenience of being and actions. It enables us to act upon our motives.

Consider the heart. It is there for appreciations, joys, peaces, loves, enjoyments, fulfillment, relationships, conscience, wonder, awe, pleasures, character of being, neutralities, ambivalences, and identity of individuality.

Consider the nose. It breathes and smells the nature we live in.

The ability to communicate. The ability to understand and comprehend. The ability to embody characteristics of virtuous character. The ability to make logical deductions about important realities. The ability to weigh options. The ability to make judgments. To consider causes and effects or lack thereof.

We can think from the heart or solely from the mind.


The Human Body: To put things in the right places for the right reasons. And still get some aesthetic beauty out of it. And to get a measure of powerful, purposeful action potential out of it. To get a measure of effective efficiency and convenience out of it.

To produce art, and creature conveniences and necessities for life.

DNA uses coded information to construct body and being.


Again human life is a long, line of just right scenarios to exist the way we do.

The mind is made to know and remember.
The mind is made to think and figure out things to do.
The mind works with ideas.
The body is built to use the environment.
The mind is made to interpret and understand things for now and future reference.
We build our future off of our past remembrances.
The mind is made to see patterns and relationships.
The mind is made to identify things.
The mind is made to recall pertinent information.
The mind is made to interact with the environment.
The mind is used passively and willfully.
The mind is an intelligent construction.

As if God were a reality hacker.

The mind is made to create and build things.
The mind is meant to explore.
The mind is meant to learn things.
The mind is meant to construct meanings.

Meaning is a necessary part of existence because mind does all these things.

The mind is built to find phenomena and make meaning of phenomena it finds.

Mind and body are tools to learn, to act, to survive, and to remember for usage.


It is senseless to think that somehow all this functionality is mindlessly made. That pure mindless incident arranged things this way. Instead everything the body and mind are is meant for to do something.


If not a God then something intentional planted us here by way of natural forces. Evolution simply ignores the appearance of mind constructing life. It doesn't address the problem so much as glaze over it.

Science can't address the intrinsic nature of these phenomena because it is restricted to extrinsic observance of how the physical world works. The best science can do with regards to only consciousness is to find the physical mechanisms that enable it to switch on or off. That won't be an explanation of all the purposes found in life.

As to the nature of how God exists that is an incomprehensible mystery. Because of its incomprehensible nature it is ruled out.

There's mystery enough to compel the idea of God. Nothing is ideal in nature but we have just enough to invoke the mystery.

I'm always amazed at the contrasting intuitions of atheists and theists. It's to the point that each seems totally alien to the other. And much is assumed about the reasons why people go to one side or the other.

You could have said "Look at the trees!" and we would have known your argument.

 

[Heyo]

Belief in a loving god gives Hope to life.it gives comfort. It gives meaning to life. It gives safety

Believing in the axioms of science is what gives me safety. Knowing that the universe is orderly and no magic can pull the ground from under me is better (for me) than being in constant uncertainty what may have angered a magical sky fairy and what it is going to do to me.

 

[blü 2]

Are you certain there is no God?

Since I have no idea what real thing the word "God" is intended to denote, I have nowhere to stand when it comes to answering your question.

 

[Heyo]

I've got a pretty good telescope and I can assure you there is no Ming teapot orbiting Saturn.

Wow. What's the resolution of your telescope?

 

[Starlight]

IMO:

Nothing wrong with that; seems the world would be a nice place if all would live like that


To understand what you mean with this, could you tell me how you define this God?

God is source, spirit, force, energy, consciousness. God is the universal god, the god all religions talk about. God is love, justice, peace.

 

[Heyo]

Oooohh! Please, could you provide that trivially easy proof of the existence of many gods right here? I mean, there are so many of us who've been looking for this forever. Really, you'd be doing us all a huge favour!

You didn't hear my proof of god yet? It's absolutely simple and irrefutable. It goes like this:

Premise 1: Clapton is god.
Premise 2 (and evidence): Clapton exists.

Conclusion: god exists.

(Note also that it doesn't claim that Clapton is the only god.)

 

[viole]

There's mystery enough to compel the idea of God. Nothing is ideal in nature but we have just enough to invoke the mystery.

That's the problem with mysteries: they tend to be patched with made up beings, whose existence, for some reasons, is not deemed mysterious. My ancestors did the same by invoking Thor as an explanation for the mystery of lighninings. Which was obviously a tad premature. Like it is usually the case for supernatural explanations of mysteries.

Fact is how: how many times has a supernatural explanation been replaced with a natural one? How many times the inverse happened?

I would say that a simple Bayesian computation, deriving from an answer to those questions, is more than enough to compel the idea that naturalism is true, instead. And the supernatural does not exist.

In fact, I think that replacing in every statement "I have a supernatural explanation" with "I have no clue", would attain the same explanatory power to address what we, in fact, do not know, yet. That is more or less what physicists do when they talk of "singularities", which is the same of "we have no idea yet of what physics acts at those regimes".

Ciao

- viole

 

[Brian2]

I believe that the Messengers of God are the evidence for God.

Isn't Baha'u'llah just evidence that Jesus is the a prophet of God, since Baha'u'llah and people like him, including Mohammad, were prophesied by Jesus.

 

[Heyo]

So what you seem to be saying is: "if somebody worships something or someone, that worshipped entity becomes a god -- by definition." So, when the Britons of Colchester, in the mid 40s CE, ‹here seems to be missing something› he became one? Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Heyo]

"God" doesn't have a hard definition with finely agreed upon characteristics. The only point in common in all deities that humanity ever had was that they were all worshiped and considered above men and mankind in general.

And not even that is universally true. Deists believe in a creator god but don't worship it.

 

[stvdv]

God is source, spirit, force, energy, consciousness. God is the universal god, the god all religions talk about. God is love, justice, peace.

Thank you

For me "God" is the undefinable mystery that creates, sustains and destroys

 

[Heyo]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

My non-belief has changed over the times, or, better put, my reasons I give for it.
My earliest memories of contact with religion is a man reading from a book - just as my mother did.
He used very quaint language - just as the stories from the books my mother read to me.
He talked about ancient times and magic and some hero characters - just as the fairy tales my mother read to me.
And later I found out that the people liked to hear the stories over and over again - just as I did when I was very young.
(These memories are most likely not true, but constructed by retelling, as old memories usually are.)

My conclusion was that people gathered to hear fairy tales.

I was surprised when I realized that some people believed the stories were true.

Even later I learned that other people believed other stories.

When I dabbled in philosophy I learned how people had tried - and failed - to prove or disprove "god".

My current conclusion is their attempts were doomed because they didn't know what they were talking about. "God" is such a nebulous concept that it can't be nailed either way.

 

[osgart]

You could have said "Look at the trees!" and we would have known your argument.

You don't understand it at all then.