Are you Certain There is no God?

[stvdv]

I decided that God should not be dependent on my faith to support God's existence. Reality should not be dependent on my faith to support its existence.

I agree with this quote

So, IMO, it is a poor concept of God that requires my faith to support it.

I agree with this quote too

 

[Nakosis]

I do not feel compelled to believe in God, I believe in God because of 'what I consider' the evidence that God exists. There are times when I would rather not believe in God and times when I like believing in God, but I whether I like God or not, I continue to believe because I cannot disbelieve in a God I know exists because I would consider that foolish. It might also carry a risk, since I would be rejecting a God that exists.

Ok, I mean I felt the same way. I knew God existed because God answered my prayers. Because everything I experienced in life supported the existence of God until I questioned the knowledge I was certain of. I questioned my certainty. Until one is willing to do so, which I wasn't previously I was where you are now.

As far as whether belief is necessary, I started a thread on that not long ago.
Does it really matter what people believe?

Here are some excerpts from that thread related to your question:

I wonder about this a lot. If people lead a good life and follow what Jesus taught, does it really matter if they believe in Jesus or in God?

I have my own ideas why I think it matters what people believe. I believe it matters that people know what reality is, the purpose for which they were created and where they will spend eternity.

If there is no afterlife, I do not think it matters that much what people believe as long as they follow the teachings of Jesus and live a good life, caring about other people and all living creatures and the environment. But will it matter what they believed in this life if there is an afterlife? That is the hundred-dollar question.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
So I think that the main reason it matters if we believe in God or not is because this earthly life is only a small part of our total existence and what we do believe and thus do here will largely determine what our existence will be like for all of eternity.

Yes, you have your ideas. I had my ideas. I just don't think if there is a God, this God should be dependent on your ideas or my ideas.

I let go of all my ideas about God because I had no good reason for them other than it was what I was taught or imagined to be true. I felt it to be very egotistical that God needed to live up to my ideas/expectations of God. God ought not to need me or my ideas about God to be God.

So for me, no ideas about God. No ideas about God to invest belief in.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.


Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

All I can say is there have been times when I have tried to convince myself by argument that God could not exist. Yet, every time I keep getting 'pulled back' and consider the universe, how much we do not understand, how amazing human beings are and it seems illogical to claim that there could not be a creator.

As Isaac Newton supposedly said, "What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean"

 

[Nakosis]

I'm certain as well there is no God. There is absolutely no venue to even pursue the matter objectively, where a person can start with a proper platform on which to base a sound hypothesis on any existing entity and go from there, so it just remains strictly as an idea from people's imagination. Nothing more.

The notion is hopelessly locked in people's heads and there it remains as long as such an idea is entertained where this fantasy plays out.

I suspect for me and you, to understand this is as simple as falling off a log. Just something in the human psyche keeps folks certain they need to keep their balance.

Fear, hope, need. lots of obstacles to get past.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

No, I am not "certain" that there is no God, just as I am not certain that there isn't a Ming teapot orbiting Saturn.

However, both are unlikely enough that I am as convinced as I need to be, in going forward.

I've got a pretty good telescope and I can assure you there is no Ming teapot orbiting Saturn.

 

[Nakosis]

All I can say is there have been times when I have tried to convince myself by argument that God could not exist. Yet, every time I keep getting 'pulled back' and consider the universe, how much we do not understand, how amazing human beings are and it seems illogical to claim that there could not be a creator.

As Isaac Newton supposedly said, "What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean"

I agree, but what we happen to know about the universe, as little as it is, any God that might exist, we know even less about.

So let's accept that "God" exists. What do you know about this God?

 

[Trailblazer]

Whats wrong believing in fantasy if the fantasy help people, give them Hope, Joy meaning, safety, better lives, kindness to each other ?

Simply put, believing in a fantasy would divert people from living for that which is reality.

But no god is not fantasy. I’m certain god exist

Me too.

 

[stvdv]

But I do not think we should believe in God for those reasons.

Why do you say "we should" ... is it not better to just "speak for your self?"

I think we should only believe in that for which there is evidence.

Why do you say "we should" ... is it not better to just "speak for your self?"

Otherwise we are just believing in a fantasy.

Why do you say "we are just believing" ... is it not better to just "speak for your self?"

 

[Skywalker]

But I do not think we should believe in God for those reasons. I think we should only believe in that for which there is evidence. Otherwise we are just believing in a fantasy.

What do you think the evidence for God is? I believe that the creation declares the majesty of God.

 

[epronovost]

I'm absolutely certain there is no such thing as what I would call a god. There is an abundant amount of evidence of abscence of such a concept.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

I am certain that there is a very good reason for you to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

There is a reason for you to believe what is in the Bible.

There is a reason God communicates to us individually.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

There is a very good argument which compels one to make the choice.

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Yes you do have a reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?

Yes.

Do you feel belief is necessary?

Yes.

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

When Jesus was talking to the Jews, He said:

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
​

The reason to believe in God, (Jesus), is so that you may have life. This speaks to eternal life. On one of the threads on the weekend, some guy said he didn't want to live forever. Infinity is too long for him. I'll check it out and let you know.

I'm still amazed at how you Atheist people spend so much time on a religious forum trying to prove that there is no God.

I don't have enough time in the day to do an eighth of the things i need or want to do.

I'm not going to run out of infinity.

I got ideas of stuff to do.

I got to walk, I can't stand still.

I got a flamin' heart, can't get my fill.

And if I get tired of it, I'll rest and thank the Lord for it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I let go of all my ideas about God because I had no good reason for them other than it was what I was taught or imagined to be true. I felt it to be very egotistical that God needed to live up to my ideas/expectations of God. God ought not to need me or my ideas about God to be God.

So for me, no ideas about God. No ideas about God to invest belief in.

I see benefit in what you are saying. In the end, I see we have to hold onto something.

I see that is actions that we see are needed, if we choose to see there is a God and those actions lay in Virtue.

Regards Tony

 

[stvdv]

Whats wrong believing in fantasy if the fantasy help people, give them Hope, Joy meaning, safety, better lives, kindness to each other ?

IMO:

Nothing wrong with that; seems the world would be a nice place if all would live like that

But no god is not fantasy. I’m certain god exist

To understand what you mean with this, could you tell me how you define this God?

 

[Quintessence]

I'm absolutely certain there is no such thing as what I would call a god.

I wish more atheists framed things this way. It's so much more honest, especially since it is trivially easy to prove the existence of many gods. Most atheists don't want to listen to any of that, because they have an unwavering idea of what "god" is and don't accept other types of theism as valid. The irony is that certain theists do exactly the same thing (monotheists, almost exclusively) and it irritates me as much on that side as it does on the atheist side.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

I'm absolutely certain there is no such thing as what I would call a god. There is an abundant amount of evidence of abscence of such a concept.

You are very fortunate to be so sure.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

I agree, but what we happen to know about the universe, as little as it is, any God that might exist, we know even less about.

So let's accept that "God" exists. What do you know about this God?

If scripture is correct quite a lot so it would depend on what you want to know.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

...especially since it is trivially easy to prove the existence of many gods.

Oooohh! Please, could you provide that trivially easy proof of the existence of many gods right here? I mean, there are so many of us who've been looking for this forever. Really, you'd be doing us all a huge favour!

 

[Vinayaka]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

Necessary? Necessary for what exactly? Is anything necessary? Without food, the physical body loses life. So? That happens to all physical bodies at some time, no? If any theist or atheist suddenly had an epiphany that the others side was right, exactly what would happen?

 

[Nakosis]

When Jesus was talking to the Jews, He said:

"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
​

The reason to believe in God, (Jesus), is so that you may have life. This speaks to eternal life. On one of the threads on the weekend, some guy said he didn't want to live forever. Infinity is too long for him. I'll check it out and let you know.

What is eternal life and why should we want it? Is not one life good enough?
I've thought about Heaven before but I really don't know what it is. Not knowing anything about it, I don't know why I'd what it.

I'm still amazed at how you Atheist people spend so much time on a religious forum trying to prove that there is no God.

I'm not trying to prove there is no God. What I am saying is that from my personal perspective is that I have no knowledge of a God to place belief in. Nothing whatsoever to do with any other atheist. This is my personal view. Other atheists may have similar views or different views. I don't speak for anyone else.

I don't have enough time in the day to do an eighth of the things i need or want to do.

I'm not going to run out of infinity.

I got ideas of stuff to do.

I got to walk, I can't stand still.

I got a flamin' heart, can't get my fill.

And if I get tired of it, I'll rest and thank the Lord for it.

Ah... I see. You want, need to do more things. You don't think one lifetime can fulfill your needs.

I'm happy with my life. I'm satisfied with it. I don't need more.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ok, I mean I felt the same way. I knew God existed because God answered my prayers. Because everything I experienced in life supported the existence of God until I questioned the knowledge I was certain of. I questioned my certainty. Until one is willing to do so, which I wasn't previously I was where you are now.

I am not where you were because I believe in God for different reasons than you did. I never say prayers asking for anything, so God has not answered my prayers, and nothing I have experienced in life supports the existence of God. In fact, I often wonder how a loving God could exist, given my own experiences of suffering as well as suffering of other people and animals. So these are the reasons not to believe in God. Moreover, it is difficult for me to attribute anything good that happens in my life to God, although that is beginning to change as I have more faith in a good God who is guiding and assisting me.

My certainty about the existence of God is derived from the religions of God that have been revealed by the Messengers of God, particularly Baha'u'llah. I have questioned that certainty over and over again for the last eight years, but the more I learn about the religions and Messengers of God, the more I am certain that God exists. Moreover, the more I am challenged by nonbelievers the more I end up believing.

Yes, you have your ideas. I had my ideas. I just don't think if there is a God, this God should be dependent on your ideas or my ideas.

I absolutely agree because that is very logical. I mean why would an omnipotent God depend upon anything humans think or do? Baha'is believe that God is fully self-sufficient and self-sustaining. As such, it makes no difference to God what humans believe or do. Everything that God reveals to humans through His Messengers is for the benefit of humans, not for God's benefit, as God has no needs whatsoever.

I let go of all my ideas about God because I had no good reason for them other than it was what I was taught or imagined to be true. I felt it to be very egotistical that God needed to live up to my ideas/expectations of God. God ought not to need me or my ideas about God to be God.

I grew up with no religion or belief in God so I was never taught anything about God, so I never imagined anything to be true. I have always been very self-sufficient and never expected God to do anything for me.

Of course it would be egotistical to think that God should live up to your expectations. God does not exist to serve humans, it is the other way around, although God gives us what we need through His Messengers.

So for me, no ideas about God. No ideas about God to invest belief in.

That is a logical approach, unless you have a reason to form ideas about God or believe in God.