Are you for bringing back sacrifice in your religion?

[Saint Frankenstein]

You're right . . . I should have said "REAL Luciferians" . . . pardonne moi

Or just speak for yourself. You're not the Pope of Luciferianism.

 

[EtuMalku]

Or just speak for yourself. You're not the Pope of Luciferianism.

Who am I then?
Instead of whining, why don't you tell me what I said is incorrect in regards to Luciferianism?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Who am I then?
Instead of whining, why don't you tell me what I said is incorrect in regards to Luciferianism?

You're just some guy on the Internet, to me.

What you said pertains to your specific brand of Luciferianism. It's not the only one. There's theistic versions, as well.

 

[Riverwolf]

I stated: Sacrifice, like prayer, assumes a gap between the divine and the human. Luciferians shun activities which keep them further from their own godhood. Those who seek energy outside of their own Minds and Wills, are too weak for this Path.

I am an introvert, which means I find energy in myself when I'm alone, generally speaking. That's easy. It would take great strength to seek energy outside myself.

And still, I don't even believe in existence without the context of others.

Animal sacrifice

is the ritual killing and offering of an animal to appease or maintain favour with a divine agency.

Sacrifice
1.a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
b. A victim offered in this way.
2.a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
b. Something so forfeited.
3.a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.
b. Something so relinquished.
c. A loss so sustained.

How am I incorrect in my statement?

Ah, it would seem "sacrifice" is somewhat polysemic. I was unaware of that.

It would mean that you're correct in your statement, when speaking in certain contexts.

However, I don't regard the Gods as "higher" than us. You may have noticed that I often call even my King Woden a prick.

 

[EtuMalku]

You're just some guy on the Internet, to me.

What you said pertains to your specific brand of Luciferianism. It's not the only one. There's theistic versions, as well.

Yep . . . all kinds of Luciferianism. But I would still like to hear your opinion as to what I said is incorrect in regards to any form of Luciferianism>

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yep . . . all kinds of Luciferianism. But I would still like to hear your opinion as to what I said is incorrect in regards to any form of Luciferianism>

I'm a Luciferian and I don't have a problem with seeking energy outside of myself or giving thanks. We don't exist in a vacuum.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

However, I don't regard the Gods as "higher" than us. You may have noticed that I often call even my King Woden a prick.

Lol. Why do you say Odin is a prick?

 

[EtuMalku]

I'm a Luciferian and I don't have a problem with seeking energy outside of myself or giving thanks. We don't exist in a vacuum.

It's not about existing in a vacuum, it's about assuming there is an outside source giving you energy or favors in return for energy. That was the part of my statement that is being criticized. As a Luciferian you should know that there is nothing higher than your Self, that all divinity is Within. Therefore to petition something assumed outside of Self with an act of destruction of a life, cannot be any further from Luciferianism.

I would be interested in knowing just where you are getting your ideas about Luciferianism from?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's not about existing in a vacuum, it's about assuming there is an outside source giving you energy or favors in return for energy. That was the part of my statement that is being criticized. As a Luciferian you should know that there is nothing higher than your Self, that all divinity is Within. Therefore to petition something assumed outside of Self with an act of destruction of a life, cannot be any further from Luciferianism.

Even if you do believe that there's nothing higher than yourself (which isn't a claim I'm arrogant enough to make), that does not mean that you do not live in a universe of interconnected beings and energies. It's about reciprocity. If you're a theistic Luciferian, for example, you would view Lucifer as a God who brings knowledge and presents opportunity for learning. It would be appropriate to approach Him (or Her) to ask to receive the gift of wisdom. In return, you would offer thanks as a show gratitude, friendship and respect. It's the same as any other friendly relationship. You ask your friends for help in certain matters, don't you? If they help you, you show gratitude, right? Otherwise you're a horrible friend.

I would be interested in knowing just where you are getting your ideas about Luciferianism from?

I pulled it out of my ***. If that the answer you're looking for?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I stated: Sacrifice, like prayer, assumes a gap between the divine and the human. Luciferians shun activities which keep them further from their own godhood. Those who seek energy outside of their own Minds and Wills, are too weak for this Path.

Animal sacrifice is the ritual killing and offering of an animal to appease or maintain favour with a divine agency.

Sacrifice
1.a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
b. A victim offered in this way.
2.a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
b. Something so forfeited.
3.a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.
b. Something so relinquished.
c. A loss so sustained.

How am I incorrect in my statement?

Not really wrong, at least to my way of thinking. You're just imposing a concept rooted in Western bias (what often is called WEIRD bias). For many (probably not all) animistic indigenous peoples, what Western missionaries and anthropologists and so on have called sacrifice is more like sharing in fellowship, of holding up our end of the bargain that allows humans to sometimes kill and eat other-than-human persons. When if make an offering of milk and cookies, or beer and meat, I am thanking my other-than-human relations for continuing to give up their lives to sustain me, and engaging in a social exchange with them, knowing that one day I will be food for their kinds.

Among some animists, it may really be something similar to the Western/Christian concepts of "propitiation or homage," but for many others it is nothing of the sort. It might be a simple exchange, a simple acknowledgement, the expected human behavior on their side of the relationship. The other-than-human persons may be bigger or smaller, or weaker or more powerful, or just about equal of human persons.

Frankly, to an animist, the story of Abel and Cain just isn't how the relationships work, or should work. If God turns up his nose, so to speak, at one's offering, then one has the right to turn to some other god that will appreciate the offering. But that whole story just doesn't fit easily into an animistic paradigm--because it's a story made to fit the idea of a god concept that is decidedly different than what animists usually hold.

 

[EtuMalku]

Even if you do believe that there's nothing higher than yourself (which isn't a claim I'm arrogant enough to make), that does not mean that you do not live in a universe of interconnected beings and energies. It's about reciprocity. If you're a theistic Luciferian, for example, you would view Lucifer as a God who brings knowledge and presents opportunity for learning. It would be appropriate to approach Him (or Her) to ask to receive the gift of wisdom. In return, you would offer thanks as a show gratitude, friendship and respect. It's the same as any other friendly relationship. You ask your friends for help in certain matters, don't you? If they help you, you show gratitude, right? Otherwise you're a horrible friend

But I don't ritualistically slaughter an animal to do so . . . where in any mythology does Lucifer require this kind of act of destruction?

I pulled it out of my ***. If that the answer you're looking for?

I'm not surprised

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But I don't ritualistically slaughter an animal to do so . . . where in any mythology does Lucifer require this kind of act of destruction?

Oh, sacrificing an animal to Lucifer? No, I don't think He would care much for that, either.

I'm not surprised

Har har.

 

[EtuMalku]

Oh, sacrificing an animal to Lucifer? No, I don't think He would care much for that, either.

Well, I must say, you have completely confounded me at this point . . . what then are you arguing against from my statement?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, I must say, you have completely confounded me at this point . . . what then are you arguing against from my statement?

You seemed to be arguing against the very idea of a Luciferian praying or making offerings of any kind to Lucifer. If you're just talking about animal sacrifice, I would agree that Lucifer probably wouldn't want that because it doesn't seem to be in His character.

 

[Desert Snake]

Eh...no. And I'm not aware of any sacrifices ever meaning anything.

 

[Faybull]

Churches are built, and requires destroying things in the world.

Besides, we're not talking about a specific religion's animal sacrificial practice. Just in general.

If I were to practice animal sacrifice, it would not be to acknowledge a transgression and ask forgiveness. It would be to honor the animal and the Gods.

Then again, I don't regard the Gods as creators.

Animal sacrifice, was in two ways...One as an act of praise, as an offering of praise or thanks to God...And two, as an act of atonement for one's actions that transgressed a law.

How is destroying that animal, an act of honoring that animal?

 

[crossfire]

Or just speak for yourself. You're not the Pope of Luciferianism.

The correct term would be "Hierophant," not "Pope." Just sayin'.

As for ritual sacrifice--especially whole burnt offerings--err, nope. Not just no, but heck no!

 

[Riverwolf]

Lol. Why do you say Odin is a prick?

Picking on Thor, basically swindling the Giants, stealing the Meade of Poetry...

But I respect him, nonetheless. Name-calling the Gods is more because of the casual relationship I have with the Gods.

 

[Riverwolf]

Animal sacrifice, was in two ways...One as an act of praise, as an offering of praise or thanks to God...And two, as an act of atonement for one's actions that transgressed a law.

In the Tanakh, perhaps.

But it was not so for us.

How is destroying that animal, an act of honoring that animal?

The animal is not destroyed.

 

[Riverwolf]

I am an introvert, which means I find energy in myself when I'm alone, generally speaking. That's easy. It would take great strength to seek energy outside myself.

And still, I don't even believe in existence without the context of others.



Ah, it would seem "sacrifice" is somewhat polysemic. I was unaware of that.

It would mean that you're correct in your statement, when speaking in certain contexts.

However, I don't regard the Gods as "higher" than us. You may have noticed that I often call even my King Woden a prick.

@EtuMalku Addendum: I therefore regard your argument as incorrect based on the context that I am basing mine on.