Are you pro-life or pro-choice as per abortion?

[The Hammer]

I’m pro-law.

And laws can very frequently be wrong and immoral.

 

[Fool]

I have not really understood this line of reasoning. We do not use it for any other issue we have. Males do have a stake in the abortion issue. Like it or not the potential child has a father as well. Should a woman not have any say in laws that force men to support their children because they are not men?

I also have a wife, two daughters, a sister, female friends and family members that I love, so it is not like the abortion issued does not affect me in some way. I understand that I do not have to carry the potential child and I am sympathetic to that and understand that I do not know what that is like but males should have a voice in the issue and not abdicate that responsibility.

if a male wanted a child, he should have found someone who was interested and planned accordingly. a non-verbal agreement won't stand up in court on most things.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

if a male wanted a child, he should have found someone who was interested and planned accordingly. a non-verbal agreement won't stand up in court on most things.

I am not sure how this is related to my post.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I have not really understood this line of reasoning. We do not use it for any other issue we have. Males do have a stake in the abortion issue. Like it or not the potential child has a father as well. Should a woman not have any say in laws that force men to support their children because they are not men?

I also have a wife, two daughters, a sister, female friends and family members that I love, so it is not like the abortion issued does not affect me in some way. I understand that I do not have to carry the potential child and I am sympathetic to that and understand that I do not know what that is like but males should have a voice in the issue and not abdicate that responsibility.

Once you decide to deposit your sperm into a female body, a good percentage of your choice in the matter transfers to the female. She is the one whose body will be permanently altered by the life inside her, with all the trauma (physical and emotional), economic and social impact, and responsibility towards that life.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Once you decide to deposit your sperm into a female body, a good percentage of your choice in the matter transfers to the female. She is the one whose body will be permanently altered by the life inside her, with all the trauma (physical and emotional), economic and social impact, and responsibility towards that life.

I am not saying a father has any right to force the mother to do anything. But you ignore the fact that another potential person is involved that deserves consideration. Why do you think after a women is pregnant is when she should decide to have a child or not and not before? Very few people are pregnant by force. If a man and women have sex that involves responsibility if a life is created. Both should know that before they have sex.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am not saying a father has any right to force the mother to do anything. But you ignore the fact that another potential person is involved that deserves consideration. Why do you think after a women is pregnant is when she should decide to have a child or not and not before? Very few people are pregnant by force. If a man and women have sex that involves responsibility if a life is created. Both should know that before they have sex.

That is to idealistic in practice.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I am not saying a father has any right to force the mother to do anything. But you ignore the fact that another potential person is involved that deserves consideration. Why do you think after a women is pregnant is when she should decide to have a child or not and not before? Very few people are pregnant by force. If a man and women have sex that involves responsibility if a life is created. Both should know that before they have sex.

It's hard for humans to avoid sex. This is why I advocate for strong communities with birth control options, education, and supports for those in poverty. That includes abortion services and adoption options.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

That is to idealistic in practice.

Why? Is it too idealistic to thing a drunk person should decide beforehand not to drive if they get drunk?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It's hard for humans to avoid sex. This is why I advocate for strong communities with birth control options, education, and supports for those in poverty. That includes abortion services and adoption options.

I support safe sex and contraception but not abortion. What if I said it is hard for humans to avoid drunk driving? Is that an excuse if they hurt someone?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I support safe sex and contraception but not abortion. What if I said it is hard for humans to avoid drunk driving? Is that an excuse if they hurt someone?

Not the best analogy.. How many cells are needed for something to be "human" or better a "person"? Second an unwanted pregnancy is closer to being like accidentally leaving your door open and someone entering without permission. Having sex is not the same as trying to have a baby. Intent makes a world of difference.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Not the best analogy.. How many cells are needed for something to be "human" or better a "person"? Second an unwanted pregnancy is closer to being like accidentally leaving your door open and someone entering without permission. Having sex is not the same as trying to have a baby. Intent makes a world of difference.

It only takes two cells to be called a potential person. No one knows how many cells it takes to become a person.

Also, intent does not matter. One possible result of having sex is pregnancy. Just like one possible result of getting drunk is driving and hurting someone while drunk. I doubt you care about intent anyway. Do you think a person that intends to get pregnant and succeeds should not be allowed to have an abortion?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It only takes two cells to be called a potential person. No one knows how many cells it takes to become a person.

Also, intent does not matter. One possible result of having sex is pregnancy. Just like one possible result of getting drunk is driving and hurting someone while drunk. I doubt you care about intent anyway. Do you think a person that intends to get pregnant and succeeds should not be allowed to have an abortion?

So now you are going to ban birth control? That is the first time that "two cells" are involved. I guess we all need to go around the world wrapped in gauze since we regularly lose multiple cells in all sorts of accidents. All of those are potential humans too.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

So now you are going to ban birth control? That is the first time that "two cells" are involved. I guess we all need to go around the world wrapped in gauze since we regularly lose multiple cells in all sorts of accidents. All of those are potential humans too.

I never said any of this. I actually said I am for contraception. Maybe ask questions if I am unclear or my statements seem contradictory instead of the gotcha attitude. Do you think this is a serious topic?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I never said any of this. I actually said I am for contraception. Maybe ask questions if I am unclear or my statements seem contradictory instead of the gotcha attitude. Do you think this is a serious topic?

Your answers have not been clear. Why are two cells snot even in the uterus yet any different from any other two cells in the human body? There are countless arguments that support choice. The ones that oppose it tend to fail when investigated.

 

[stvdv]

I get the feeling that sometimes we end up in false dilemmas as a strong one or the other,
so I made 4 choices. And no, you don't have to vote as you can reject all 4 if you like.

I have no clue into which category I belong, so I don't know which to choose in the poll. But below are my thoughts about it. Maybe the last poll option is mine or "pro choice" if it is only about "to abort or not abort"

IF this is about aborting a pregnancy
THEN the best start is to educate all men AND women that abortion is fine, but do it before a certain time, decided by government (Religion follows government in this)

For this to be successful all discrimination must be eradicated, meaning to "tell a female it's bad to abort" is as bad as "to abort", because when you put such a Voodoo Spell on a female she gets sick of guilt and might postpone longer than the agreed time

So, @mikkel_the_dane which is the correct poll choice for me, after you read this?

Spoiler: Some personal views on this

Never, never jail women for being pregnant, because the man impregnated her, so he did the act. IF you want to jail someone THEN it must be the man who did it

I am pro life, meaning "don't kill humans after they are born". Except when you are a warrior (in the army) and you kill in a war. BUT that should be Dharmic too, meaning one big arena where they fight, the strongest army wins. Never should they kill non soldiers nor rape men or women

I am pro Choice. But the choice should be to not harm others (the ones who have been born already)

About the unborn ones. Before 4 month and 9 days abortion is okay. After that time "life force" enters, so I understand some prefer abortions before "life force" enters.

4 month not having noticed being pregnant is possible I guess, otherwise you have had plenty of time to do an abortion.

Personally I believe my true reality is Atma, and Atma can't be killed, and Atma chooses to which parents it will go.

So IF parents decide to abort, "bad luck (not really of course)" for Atma, so try again. So even abort just before being born is okay for me

BUT first "taboo on abortion should be taken out" as well as discrimination of females deciding to abort.

Make a clear Law that is manageable.

Meaning start simple:
1) Get everyone educated
(brainwash all 'abort in time is a must' )
2) Play the guilt card is not allowed
(IF abortion is not allowed after let's say 3 month after discovering you are pregnant THEN no one should be allowed to make females feel guilty for doing abortion ELSE we never progress into solving the problem)

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Your answers have not been clear. Why are two cells snot even in the uterus yet any different from any other two cells in the human body? There are countless arguments that support choice. The ones that oppose it tend to fail when investigated.

Two cells that form a new life with unique DNA (zygote) if left alone can become a new person. Do you agree? This happens everyday.

Two skin cells left alone cannot become a new person. Do you agree?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In England and Wales and Soon Scotland, you can now take the termination pills at home after talking to your doctor.
It is entirely up to the woman.

Later abortions need intervention by a doctor, so come with some caveats.

Northern Ireland has some restrictions. But abortions are now legal.
In southern Ireland it has been legal for some time.

I prefer contraception when ever possible, but I am not pro life, what ever that is supposed to mean.
But if for what ever reason a woman wishes to end a pregnancy it should be down to her.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Two cells that form a new life with unique DNA (zygote) if left alone can become a new person. Do you agree? This happens everyday.

Two skin cells left alone cannot become a new person. Do you agree?

So what? Cloning is real and could be done with humans. Yes, a zygote could become a human, but so could a clone of someone. The only reason it is not done is because of the moral issues. By the way, "unique DNA" is only special pleading. You have as of yet to justify taking over the body of someone else. Physically changing them for life. A person would have a much better case justifying someone temporarily using your body for its kidneys or liver.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In England and Wales and Soon Scotland, you can now take the termination pills at home after talking to your doctor.
It is entirely up to the woman.

Later abortions need intervention by a doctor, so come with some caveats.

Northern Ireland has some restrictions. But abortions are now legal.
In southern Ireland it has been legal for some time.

I prefer contraception when ever possible, but I am not pro life, what ever that is supposed to mean.
But if for what ever reason a woman wishes to end a pregnancy it should be down to her.

I agree that you are pro life, you are not American prolifeTM but that is a good thing. I am no fan of how they took that phrase and then applied it only to abortions. In other words you are almost surely more pro life than they are.

 

[F1fan]

You are wrong. There are secular moral reasons to be prolife. There and prolife atheists out there like myself that have reasoned that stance based on our morals.

Let's see those arguments. You own position as you're explained it is largely the Christian moral argument. You've likely adopted it without realizing it's origins.