Are you saved?

[URAVIP2ME]

It is interesting that they believed that death meant the end but with god being spirit I can't really see what he needs with our physical bodies. Jesus says to be reborn of spirit.
John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

In Scripture there are two [2] hopes held out.
All who died before Jesus died will have an earthly resurrection [John 3 v 13]
Resurrected back to life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus 1000 year reign over earth.

Those going to heaven [Jesus spiritual 'brothers'] have a spirit resurrection as Jesus did. They are part of the first or earlier resurrection mentioned at Rev. 20 v 6. [1st Cor. 15 v 50]

For our day, or time frame, is the coming 'time of separation' [Matt. 25 vs 31,32]. Those living 'sheep'-like people are alive on earth and can continue to remain alive on earth right into the start of Jesus millennial reign over earth.

So, unlike the already dead, if we are still alive on earth at the 'time of separation' [harvest time between wheat and weeds/tares] we can continue to remain alive with the prospect of gaining everlasting life on a paradisaic earth forever. -Psalm 37 vs 11,29

 

[Nakosis]

The religions that teach by just believing or calling on Jesus name is refuted by Jesus himself at Matt 7:21-23

These are told they are christian, they obviously believe very strongly and will be calling on Jesus name-- i would say everyone of them were told they were saved as well. But their jaws will drop when they hear Jesus tell them that he never even knew them. Why will this occur? Because the teachers reside in darkness,they neither know God or his son. There is a test to see if one is in the light or in the darkness-- 1 cor 1:10-- this proves that the one single religion that Jesus started is unified in love and peace worldwide--one with God and his son.

Christianity as it exists today seems far remove from passing this test.

There is no destiny involved, it requires many aspects on the mortals part to truly be a follower of Jesus.

So you think that our actions our choices can save or damn us?

 

[kjw47]

Christianity as it exists today seems far remove from passing this test.



So you think that our actions our choices can save or damn us?

i do believe 99% of religions calling themselves christian cant pass the test as you put it.
God gave us free will, so yes its by our choices.

 

[josh120775]

I don't think so. I think Christians ended up convincing themselves they got a get out of jail free card. Like God has to listen to what some particular religion says because they said it.

It may already be set up I just don't think you can do anything to get yourself picked. Alter your destiny. Do you think anyone claiming to be a Christian is going to heaven.

"Hey, I'm a Christian"... "Alright, your in". "Do you have faith in Jesus?"... "Sure, why not if it'll get me into heaven".

You think that is the way it works?

The plan is what? What action do you need to take to make God allow you into heaven?

This is very true. Growing up conservative, "salvation" was more of a vaccination from hell. Being of a more liberal nature now, "salvation" has nothing to do with the afterlife, but refers to being free the bondage of the everyday, which means different things to different people from different religions. Salvation is very personal thing, and how you feel free or rescued or whatever could be much different than someone else.

If you feel you've been "saved" and that brings you peace, then go with it.

 

[Nakosis]

This is very true. Growing up conservative, "salvation" was more of a vaccination from hell. Being of a more liberal nature now, "salvation" has nothing to do with the afterlife, but refers to being free the bondage of the everyday, which means different things to different people from different religions. Salvation is very personal thing, and how you feel free or rescued or whatever could be much different than someone else.

If you feel you've been "saved" and that brings you peace, then go with it.

Yes, sometimes it is a search for peace. Not that, that would necessarily be any easier then finding God.

I often wonder if "non-existence" is where a person might ultimately find peace.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, sometimes it is a search for peace. Not that, that would necessarily be any easier then finding God.
I often wonder if "non-existence" is where a person might ultimately find peace.

God is not far off from everyone of us.- [Acts 17 v 27]
God is just a prayer away. -[Luke 11 v 13 B]
God can be found between the pages of Scripture.- [2nd Timothy 3 vs 16,17]
As Jesus taught that Scripture is religious truth.- [ John 17 v 17]
Religious truth that will set us free from false religious teachings.

Before Adam was created from the dust of the ground, Adam had non-existence.
When Adam died, Adam went back to the dust [non-existence]

Jesus likened death to non-existence in that he likened death to sleep.
[John 11 vs 11-14]
Since there is No thought in death [ Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4]
and the death know nothing [ Ecclesiastes 9 v 5], then there would not be peace in non-existence, but the absence of everything including peace.

Jesus laid the ground work for peace. Jesus [as Prince of Peace] will usher in global Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill. Then, during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth, there will be world-wide peace under God's kingdom in the hands of Christ Jesus as king of God's kingdom.-Psalm 72 v 8

 

[Bob L]

Am I saved? Damn right I am! Ever since I became an atheist I've been saved from all things religion, and I've never been happier! Logic and reason have saved me!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Am I saved? Damn right I am! Ever since I became an atheist I've been saved from all things religion, and I've never been happier! Logic and reason have saved me!

Jesus used logic and reasoning on Scripture to save him.

Jesus said the truth would set us free.
Religious truth would set us free from what is false.

Of course one can be 'saved from religion'
Even Jesus was trying to save the people from the religion of the Pharisees.
Just that Jesus was not trying to save from all religion.
Just being saved from religion can not give a person: everlasting hope.

 

[jasonwill2]

Does one really believe that they are in a saved position because a mortal tells you so? Isnt God the one who writes the names in the book of life? Is mortal man elevating themselves into Gods position by telling another that they are saved?

saved from what?

My beliefs hold that Satan encompasses all, there is nothing to be saved from.

 

[illykitty]

Nope not in the Christian sense. I'm saved through questioning and trying to find answers for myself. I am freed from rituals and silly things I don't agree with. I only go with what feels right and moral to me and follow the good ol golden rule.

 

[Bob L]

Jesus used logic and reasoning on Scripture to save him.

Jesus said the truth would set us free.
Religious truth would set us free from what is false.

Of course one can be 'saved from religion'
Even Jesus was trying to save the people from the religion of the Pharisees.
Just that Jesus was not trying to save from all religion.
Just being saved from religion can not give a person: everlasting hope.

Now why would I want everlasting hope? I'm not everlasting! Being saved from religion gives me something far more important - happiness and peace of mind. :yes:

 

[kjw47]

saved from what?

My beliefs hold that Satan encompasses all, there is nothing to be saved from.

Saved from the ruler of this world, and ones own desperate, treacherous heart.Both mislead.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Now why would I want everlasting hope? I'm not everlasting! Being saved from religion gives me something far more important - happiness and peace of mind. :yes:

No one is saying one can not have happiness and peace of mind.

According to Scripture you can be everlasting.
Everlasting with happiness and peace of mind included in the package.

For each day we can think of we can think of the next because eternity is in our hearts.

What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

saved from what?

What a great ^above^question. I never asked that of anyone. I will give that a try to see what response I might get by asking 'saved from what ?'

If a person were drowning and you could throw him a life saver, that could save his life to see another day.

I'll liken the Bible's message theme to being a life saver.
The information contained between its pages gives us life-saving information.
Part of the information is that: we are nearing the last days of badness on earth. There will be divine involvement in mankind's affairs.
The words from Jesus mouth will 'save' [save alive] the righteous.
Save alive through the coming great tribulation [Rev. 7 v 14; Matt. 24 v 21]

There is a final signal, so to speak, mentioned at 1st Thess. 5 vs 2,3.
When 'they' [powers that be] are saying 'Peace and Safety' or 'Peace and Security', that 'signal' is a precursor to the great tribulation that will climax in the last war [Armageddon] which will bring Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.

-Psalm 46 v 9; Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; 2 v 4; Micah 4 vs 3,4; Rev. 19 vs 11,14,15

So, what we can be saved from is the destruction of all wickedness on earth.
[Psalm 92 v 7; 37 vs 11,29;Proverbs 22 vs 21,22], and become part of the humble meek that will inherit the earth. Or, inherit the earthly realm of God's kingdom in the hands of Christ Jesus for a thousand years when paradisaic conditions will be restored to earth.
-Rev. 22 v 2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nope not in the Christian sense. I'm saved through questioning and trying to find answers for myself. I am freed from rituals and silly things I don't agree with. I only go with what feels right and moral to me and follow the good ol golden rule.

What is the Christian or Bible's sense of being saved ?____________

An inquiring mind wants to know finding answers.
The people of Acts [17 v 11] did their own research to see if they agreed or not.

Jesus even wanted to free the people of the rituals of the religious leaders of his day because such religious rituals did not agree with Scripture.
-Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9; John 4 vs 23,24

We are all created as free moral agents with the latitude to make personal decisions for either personal gain or not. Even choosing not to decide anything is still making a free-will choice. So, using the Golden Rule is using one's freedom of choice pointing in God's direction.

Doesn't the pattern of the world elevate to a high level being fashioned after this world's system of things? The world's material 'needs', the 'deserve it' attitude surrounds us. Our will first over God's will.
Often the world's idea of what feels right is that one ends up feeling worn-out tired. Immorality [often the world's morals] often ends in sadness.
The added stress of spending $$ for what feels right is only a happy moment.
So, the closer 'what feels right' [such as the Golden Rule] is in harmony with what Jesus taught as right may also leave us tired, but happy tired at day's end resulting in having a good conscience toward God.

 

[Reverend Richard]

What is unfulfilled by Luke 19 vs 43,44 and Luke 21 vs 20,21 ?____________
Wasn't Jerusalem destroyed in the year 70 by the Roman armies ?

Isn't there both a minor and a MAJOR fulfillment of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 ?

The synoptic gospels are unreliable for many reasons, but primarily because we have no idea who wrote them.

However, if you look back at the Old Testament, there are a number of things the Messiah was supposed to do upon his return,including:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).​

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)​

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9)​

Of course, Christians claim that Jesus came to "replace" or update the prophesies with new one and that these prophesies will be fulfilled at Jesus's second coming. However, that too goes against the original Jewish prophesy that the Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever. Anyone coming to modify the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)​

 

[Shermana]

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).​

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)​

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9)​

The Messianic Prophecies, their timeframe, and how long they take to accomplish, and whether the verses in question are actually Messianic Prophecies are all part of the debate to begin with. The process of returning the Jews to Israel got a major boost in the arm in the 1800s-1948. How long it takes to cause World Peace is a good question, there's no reason to indicate that it takes one year or 2000 or 3000, the prophecies in the end of Zechariah take place across thousands of years for example. The concept that the world is divided into ages and it may take an entire age for such events to be fulfilled is oft forgotten. But many things which are called Messianic prophecies simply aren't. To write off Jesus's fulfillment of the prophecies as wrong is to say that you know exactly what the prophecies are and aren't which is a whole argument. As for spreading universal knowledge of God, that kinda happened over the last 2000 years, nowhere on Earth is the Jewish God truly not known, even isolated native tribes know about the Jewish god. Whether they erroneously think he's Jesus due to doctrinal error or not is another story.

However, that too goes against the original Jewish prophesy that the Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance.

This however is one of my greatest issues with "Christians", they simply no have idea what the Jewish Messiah means in Jewish terms, they completely remove it from its Jewish context. In this, they may be denying Jesus completely and worshiping a false god by completely throwing out all the Jewish context and replacing it with a Syncretized gentile version. The Christian version of Jesus, the original Nazarenes would think is the Anti-Christ.

 

[sojourner]

Are you saved?

I prefer to imagine myself as invested rather than saved.

 

[Reverend Richard]

The Messianic Prophecies, their timeframe, and how long they take to accomplish, and whether the verses in question are actually Messianic Prophecies are all part of the debate to begin with. The process of returning the Jews to Israel got a major boost in the arm in the 1800s-1948. How long it takes to cause World Peace is a good question, there's no reason to indicate that it takes one year or 2000 or 3000, the prophecies in the end of Zechariah take place across thousands of years for example. The concept that the world is divided into ages and it may take an entire age for such events to be fulfilled is oft forgotten. But many things which are called Messianic prophecies simply aren't. To write off Jesus's fulfillment of the prophecies as wrong is to say that you know exactly what the prophecies are and aren't which is a whole argument. As for spreading universal knowledge of God, that kinda happened over the last 2000 years, nowhere on Earth is the Jewish God truly not known, even isolated native tribes know about the Jewish god. Whether they erroneously think he's Jesus due to doctrinal error or not is another story.

Or, to put it another way, to say that you know Jesus' fulfillment of prophesies has taken place, is also wrong. (Which is what I think you are also saying below?)

This however is one of my greatest issues with "Christians", they simply no have idea what the Jewish Messiah means in Jewish terms, they completely remove it from its Jewish context. In this, they may be denying Jesus completely and worshiping a false god by completely throwing out all the Jewish context and replacing it with a Syncretized gentile version. The Christian version of Jesus, the original Nazarenes would think is the Anti-Christ.

I totally agree with this. I am a former conservative Christian. And as a born-again Christian I used to believe that the New Testament made it clear that Jewish prophesy had been fulfilled through Christ. However, it wasn't until I began, as you said, putting prophesies into a Jewish context that I finally understood why Jews (or at least the vast majority of them) just don't accept Jesus as Messiah.

 

[Shermana]

One can at best take a belief. To say that we know for a fact that the prophecies have taken place would require...actual prophecy. We must admit that it is only our own interpretations of what we consider the prophecies to begin with, and non-Messianic Jews who reject Jesus because they claim to know as matter of fact that he did NOT are just as guilty, because they are basing it on a series of strawmanned arguments that they often regard as objective truth when in fact it's completely up to interpretation in many ways without any official Rabbinical one on what Messiah is supposed to be. They can't even agree on what the Messianic Age is supposed to be, but for some reason they know how to interpret the text enough to know Jesus wasn't it, that it can't refer to an age-long process that takes place after his arrival. Another issue is: What are these prophecies to begin with? Many involve texts that are called "Pseudipigraphic" but in my opinion were considered writ back in the day like Ascension of Isaiah.

What I also meant to say by that, is that not only do most Christians have absolutely no idea what Jesus is supposed to be in the first place and why he's even considered Messiah in the first place or any of the background before it, they fail to recognize that he came for a particular "Nazarene" type sect of Judaism and to speak out against those in power who he viewed as leading incorrectly, not to overthrow the Law. Most Christians who aren't SDA hold an intensely pro-Pauline anti-Law mentality and even twist and distort (and ignore passages that say otherwise) what Jesus himself says about the Law, saying "Fulfilled = abolished". Without the Jewish foundation and the emphasis on the Law to prevent them from future sinning, they rely on mystical pseudo-beliefs that are nonetheless historical but fly in the face of what even the NT text itself says, that they don't have to do any works for their salvation ("strive for the narrow gate"), which is the opposite of traditional Jewish belief. Jesus came to reinforce what Judaism was supposed to be and to scold the Pharisees for corrupting the Law (often misinterpreted by "Christians" to mean they were scolded merely for following the Law itself). Judaism is all about your works and how you are judged by them, that your heavenly and earthly fate depends on how well you obey the commandments, where Gentile Christianity throws this out the door, using their own cherry picked interpretations that ultimately deny the very historical foundation.

I could write a whole book on this so I"ll stop here.