Are you saved?

[Bob Dixon]

One must be serving the true God to start with. And if Jesus paid for our sins why has every human died thus paying the wages of sin?

1. Who is the true God? Who is the false God?
2. Humans don't die because they're paying the wages of sin. They die because, at some point of another, the chemical process that keep them alive stop functioning properly and they're unable to sustain the body.

These are querstions we must consider.

Personally, I do somewhat agree with you, though.

 

[waitasec]

1. Who is the true God? Who is the false God?
2. Humans don't die because they're paying the wages of sin. They die because, at some point of another, the chemical process that keep them alive stop functioning properly and they're unable to sustain the body.

These are querstions we must consider.

Personally, I do somewhat agree with you, though.

that is the thing though how does one figure out if they are serving the one true god? it all boils down to following ones own truth, while understanding it is their truth and not a truth that is to be applied to others...iow, live and let live

 

[javajo]

One must be serving the true God to start with. And if Jesus paid for our sins why has every human died thus paying the wages of sin?

I believe Jesus came to save lost sinners who could in no way save themselves, let alone be serving God while still in the kingdom of darkness, slaves to sin. It is very common theology that Jesus paid the penalty of our sins by dying on the cross. For US to pay for our OWN sins, we must not only be already born spiritually dead, and die physically as well, but then die the second death which is eternal separation from God in Hell. Or, we can accept, as God accepted and said he was satisfied (with the payment) as he did in Isaiah 53, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us so we may be justified before God. We must repent from our own dead works and 'filthy rags' righteousness, and accept the free gift of salvation which was purchased with Jesus' blood when he paid our sin debt on the cross. Only Christ's death was sufficient to pay the penalty for all our sins and we can only trust alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone for our salvation. As to why we still die, it is appointed to man once to die, according to Hebrews. We still have our old sinful nature passed down from Adam, so we will still die physically UNTIL we are transformed sinful to sinless (corruption shall put on incorruption) and mortal to immortal at the Rapture. (see 1 Cor. 15 & 1 Thess. 4) Those alive at the Rapture will be transformed and will not taste death.

 

[waitasec]

I believe Jesus came to save lost sinners who could in no way save themselves, let alone be serving God while still in the kingdom of darkness, slaves to sin. It is very common theology that Jesus paid the penalty of our sins by dying on the cross. For US to pay for our OWN sins, we must not only be already born spiritually dead, and die physically as well, but then die the second death which is eternal separation from God in Hell. Or, we can accept, as God accepted and said he was satisfied (with the payment) as he did in Isaiah 53, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us so we may be justified before God. We must repent from our own dead works and 'filthy rags' righteousness, and accept the free gift of salvation which was purchased with Jesus' blood when he paid our sin debt on the cross. Only Christ's death was sufficient to pay the penalty for all our sins and we can only trust alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone for our salvation. As to why we still die, it is appointed to man once to die, according to Hebrews. We still have our old sinful nature passed down from Adam, so we will still die physically UNTIL we are transformed sinful to sinless (corruption shall put on incorruption) and mortal to immortal at the Rapture. (see 1 Cor. 15 & 1 Thess. 4) Those alive at the Rapture will be transformed and will not taste death.

if you would exchange all the "we/us/our" for "i/me/mine" i would be fine with this post...but as it stands it's insulting.

 

[javajo]

if you would exchange all the "we/us/our" for "i/me/mine" i would be fine with this post...but as it stands it's insulting.

Sorry, waitasec, I had no intention of insulting anyone. Just saying what I believe about salvation being a free gift we cannot earn as opposed to 'wages earned'. The discussion I was having (not with you) would probably be better in a same faith debate thread, imo. Again, sorry for any unintentional pain I may have caused.

 

[waitasec]

Sorry, waitasec, I had no intention of insulting anyone. Just saying what I believe about salvation being a free gift we cannot earn as opposed to 'wages earned'. The discussion I was having (not with you) would probably be better in a same faith debate thread, imo. Again, sorry for any unintentional pain I may have caused.

i know you didn't mean to insult, i was just trying to give you insight of how this opinion, your religious faith, comes across.
and i understand you were having a conversation with someone else, but your post implied your religious beliefs, your opinion, is supposed to be applied everyone. this works for YOU...however by applying YOUR religious beliefs to everyone crosses the line. YOU need salvation, i don't.

 

[Bob L]

No, I am not 'saved', for the simple reason that, as an atheist, I reject all such concepts because of lack of proof that they are true.

 

[thau]

Your feigned ignorance is most entertaining.

To explain then; It is quite a leap of judgment to go from a priest racked with struggles between good and evil who apparently cannot stop himself from molesting little children, to make that state of affaires tantamount to that priest honestly “believing that it is perfectly fine to molest little children.”

Since I do not believe your flavour of god even exists...

Perhaps not, but you sure spend a lot of time trying to disprove our “flavour of god.” No doubt, your flavour puts no barriers upon any of your earthly wishes.

 

[kjw47]

I believe Jesus came to save lost sinners who could in no way save themselves, let alone be serving God while still in the kingdom of darkness, slaves to sin. It is very common theology that Jesus paid the penalty of our sins by dying on the cross. For US to pay for our OWN sins, we must not only be already born spiritually dead, and die physically as well, but then die the second death which is eternal separation from God in Hell. Or, we can accept, as God accepted and said he was satisfied (with the payment) as he did in Isaiah 53, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us so we may be justified before God. We must repent from our own dead works and 'filthy rags' righteousness, and accept the free gift of salvation which was purchased with Jesus' blood when he paid our sin debt on the cross. Only Christ's death was sufficient to pay the penalty for all our sins and we can only trust alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone for our salvation. As to why we still die, it is appointed to man once to die, according to Hebrews. We still have our old sinful nature passed down from Adam, so we will still die physically UNTIL we are transformed sinful to sinless (corruption shall put on incorruption) and mortal to immortal at the Rapture. (see 1 Cor. 15 & 1 Thess. 4) Those alive at the Rapture will be transformed and will not taste death.

The key word to be under Jesus,s sacrafice is WE must repent( acts 3:19) And at 1 cor 6:9-11( a list of gross sins God will never accept) it makes this statement showing what true repentence is-- it says--This is what some of you were( past tense) thus repentence is the stopping of the doing of a sin.
At Hebrews 10:26--Paul clearly shows that if one is practicing a sin they are not under Jesus,s sacrafice--in fact they will hear this judgement no matter how much love for Jesus they have--Matt 7: 21-23-- a worker of iniquity( lawlessness) = a practicer of sin. At 1 John 3 it makes this statement-- Its impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.

 

[kjw47]

1. Who is the true God? Who is the false God?
2. Humans don't die because they're paying the wages of sin. They die because, at some point of another, the chemical process that keep them alive stop functioning properly and they're unable to sustain the body.

These are querstions we must consider.

Personally, I do somewhat agree with you, though.

Even in the mistranslated versions of Gods written word truth could not be hidden--- At John 17:1-6 Jesus himself while praying to the Father called the Father-THE ONLY TRUE GOD, Same thing Paul taught at 1 cor 8:6--- That is why Jesus made this truthful statement to all who listen to him-Rev 3:12--Also at 1 cor 15:24-28--it teaches that after Jesus 1000 year reign as Gods appointed king, Jesus hands back the kingdom( kingship) to his God and Father and must become a subject to him. ( someone equal is not a subject, only created beings are subject) the Father = Jehovah-psalm 83:18.

 

[kjw47]

I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that the death Jesus was dealing with was spiritual rather than physical. Even in the Garden of Eden, Adam & Eve evidently were physically mortal before the Fall, as after the Fall God had to shoo them out of there so they wouldn't eat of the Tree of Life and live forever in their fallen state:

Genesis 3:22-24:

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”23So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

​

Physical death is probably no more spiritually significant than any other stage the body goes through, such as getting wisdom teeth, going through puberty or menopause. What we call physical "death" is just the soul shedding it's outer skin -- kind of like molting, I guess. It's just the next -- and final -- stage in the human body's timeline.

All just my take on it, though.


-

I am not sure what one thinks the soul is but in greek the word for soul is Psyche-- the word for spirit is ruach..

 

[Astravalon]

I am not sure what one thinks the soul is but in greek the word for soul is Psyche-- the word for spirit is ruach..

I tend to use the two terms interchangeably, but I have seen a distinction made between the two in the past.

The focus in my previous post was less about the distinction between soul and spirit and more about the distinction between the physical and the spiritual as it pertains to death.

-

 

[sojourner]

They were all written within the life spans of eye witnesses

No they weren't.

They were also written way too soon for any sophisticated myth to develop.

the stories, themselves, are highly mythic. And sophisticated, at that.

and since he was an expert in the law and was tasked with starting the transition of the church not recording Jesus' life because there were four other writers doing that,

There were more than four...

Since you fall short what can you do about it since every word about Jesus could be corrupted and so could not be used to develop a faith that allows God to save.

the bible is not intended to "develop a faith that allows God to save." The bible is intended as the written repository of mythic stories, poetry, letters, prophecy, and law developed and cherished by those who believe in God.

the bible is supernaturally accurate

No, it isn't.

and is vastly more reliable than in any other text in ancient literature.

No, it isn't.

 

[sojourner]

I believe Jesus came to save lost sinners who could in no way save themselves, let alone be serving God while still in the kingdom of darkness, slaves to sin. It is very common theology that Jesus paid the penalty of our sins by dying on the cross. For US to pay for our OWN sins, we must not only be already born spiritually dead, and die physically as well, but then die the second death which is eternal separation from God in Hell. Or, we can accept, as God accepted and said he was satisfied (with the payment) as he did in Isaiah 53, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us so we may be justified before God. We must repent from our own dead works and 'filthy rags' righteousness, and accept the free gift of salvation which was purchased with Jesus' blood when he paid our sin debt on the cross. Only Christ's death was sufficient to pay the penalty for all our sins and we can only trust alone, by faith alone, in Christ alone for our salvation. As to why we still die, it is appointed to man once to die, according to Hebrews. We still have our old sinful nature passed down from Adam, so we will still die physically UNTIL we are transformed sinful to sinless (corruption shall put on incorruption) and mortal to immortal at the Rapture. (see 1 Cor. 15 & 1 Thess. 4) Those alive at the Rapture will be transformed and will not taste death.

That's very nice. But it's only one possible theological construction that's legitimately supportable by the biblical texts.

 

[McBell]

To explain then; It is quite a leap of judgment to go from a priest racked with struggles between good and evil who apparently cannot stop himself from molesting little children, to make that state of affaires tantamount to that priest honestly “believing that it is perfectly fine to molest little children.”

Unfortunately for you this is not the case, now is it?
Nope.
For several hundred years the higher ups in the Catholic Church were shuffling these pedophiles around.
Why would they do that if they did not think it was perfectly ok?

The outing of the pedophiles really gave the Catholic Church it chance to show its true colours, and by golly it sure did.

But that is for a different thread.

Perhaps not, but you sure spend a lot of time trying to disprove our “flavour of god.” No doubt, your flavour puts no barriers upon any of your earthly wishes.

You must have me confused with someone else.

Please be so kind as to show where I have tried to prove any god false.
And after you do not find any, I expect an apology for your blatant characterization.

 

[thau]

Unfortunately for you this is not the case, now is it?
Nope.
For several hundred years the higher ups in the Catholic Church were shuffling these pedophiles around.
Why would they do that if they did not think it was perfectly ok?

The outing of the pedophiles really gave the Catholic Church it chance to show its true colours, and by golly it sure did.

But that is for a different thread.



You must have me confused with someone else.

Please be so kind as to show where I have tried to prove any god false.
And after you do not find any, I expect an apology for your blatant characterization.

I will apologize now (sincerely), because I have no time or zeal to make myself triumphant. I just assumed you were like all the rest... i.e., you do not care what anyone believes or says, so long as they are not some devout Christian giving evidence for Jesus Christ and shouting warnings.

As to your first comment... my statement or position remains the same. I do not believe you can grasp the distinction between the two.

 

[Shermana]

The key word to be under Jesus,s sacrafice is WE must repent( acts 3:19) And at 1 cor 6:9-11( a list of gross sins God will never accept) it makes this statement showing what true repentence is-- it says--This is what some of you were( past tense) thus repentence is the stopping of the doing of a sin.
At Hebrews 10:26--Paul clearly shows that if one is practicing a sin they are not under Jesus,s sacrafice--in fact they will hear this judgement no matter how much love for Jesus they have--Matt 7: 21-23-- a worker of iniquity( lawlessness) = a practicer of sin. At 1 John 3 it makes this statement-- Its impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.

^Truth.

Even Paul says unrepentant sinners don't go to the Kingdom.

And sin is "Lawlessness".

 

[sojourner]

For several hundred years the higher ups in the Catholic Church were shuffling these pedophiles around.
Why would they do that if they did not think it was perfectly ok?

I'm not sticking up for the church here, but your logic is skewed. If the church thought it was perfectly ok, they wouldn't have moved them around. They would have left them where they were and thumbed their nose at the "authorities." Fact is, the church did know it was wrong, and they moved the pedophiles under the false assumption that 1) removing them from a particular temptation would "cure" them of their propensity or 2) the pedophiles had simply had a "one time slip-up" and would not repeat the crime somewhere else.

 

[Shermana]

If the church thought it was perfectly ok, they wouldn't have moved them around.

What are they supposed to do? Keep them at the same place? The mere fact that they don't defrock them and hand them over to the authorities is a gorilla in the room.

 

[javajo]

i know you didn't mean to insult, i was just trying to give you insight of how this opinion, your religious faith, comes across.
and i understand you were having a conversation with someone else, but your post implied your religious beliefs, your opinion, is supposed to be applied everyone. this works for YOU...however by applying YOUR religious beliefs to everyone crosses the line. YOU need salvation, i don't.

I am sorry if my beliefs are offensive to you or others. But they are my beliefs and I am simply sharing what I earnestly believe to be the truth. I am not trying to put anyone down. I just know for myself, myself mind you, that I know I am a terrible sinner and have broken all ten commandments repeatedly. So, I did need salvation and accepted the free gift. If you do not believe you need salvation that's not my business, its fine, I am not offended nor do I mean to offend. Just sharing my beliefs.

The key word to be under Jesus,s sacrafice is WE must repent( acts 3:19) And at 1 cor 6:9-11( a list of gross sins God will never accept) it makes this statement showing what true repentence is-- it says--This is what some of you were( past tense) thus repentence is the stopping of the doing of a sin.
At Hebrews 10:26--Paul clearly shows that if one is practicing a sin they are not under Jesus,s sacrafice--in fact they will hear this judgement no matter how much love for Jesus they have--Matt 7: 21-23-- a worker of iniquity( lawlessness) = a practicer of sin. At 1 John 3 it makes this statement-- Its impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.

That's not what Corinthians 6 says AT ALL! In that chapter Paul is talking to brothers in Christ, believers of the Church at Corinth, calling them Saints who will judge angels, and correcting them for suing each other before unbelievers. It was those unbelievers he referred to that would not inherit the Kingdom, not them. In fact the Corinthian Christians who were freely saved, "bought with a price", as v.20, were very carnal Christians who got drunk and ate too much at communion and who were still having sex with the temple prostitutes. Did Paul say they were not saved? Did Paul say the one who had sex with his Dad's wife was unsaved? No, he said his body may be killed that his spirit would live, then in 2 Cor. the man is restored. Paul confirmed they were saved, see what it says:

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

There he says they are ALREADY washed, sanctified and justified through Jesus, that although all things are lawful, all things are not profitable. So, although they are freely saved, sin will bring hurt and destruction, etc. into their lives, and of course loss of reward and position in the next, but not of salvation, for that is a free gift.

13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

Here God says he will raise them up by his power and that their bodies are, right now, members of Christ. He is simply warning saved people not to sin as it has dire consequences now and hereafter. He never implies they are unsaved, just the opposite.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Again, he confirms that they are "joined unto the Lord", that their body is "the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you", and they belong to God, they "are not your own". So, they are saved, joined to the Lord, indwelt by the Holy Spirit and are God's purchased possession, "bought with a price". Paul is telling them that BECAUSE they are ALREADY saved, bought by the precious blood of Christ and not their own merit, they should not commit these gross sins. NOT so they can GET saved, but because they already ARE. To get saved one can only accept the undeserved, unmerited free gift of God, as salvation is a free gift, not of works so no man may boast.

As far as "lawlessness" goes, we received the promise from Abraham, not by keeping the Law, and Jesus has redeemed us from the curse of the Law, read Galatians Chapter 3.

That's very nice. But it's only one possible theological construction that's legitimately supportable by the biblical texts.

Thank-you. I believe following the rules of interpretation it is the correct construct. The Bible says we were "DEAD in trespasses and sins. I imagine myself to have been dead, six feet under in a coffin, stiff and decaying. There is NO WAY I could do anything to try to save or help save myself. Although I was completely incapable of giving myself this eternal life, being dead and unable to do anything to merit it as it is a gift, God, because he loved me, freely gave me eternal life even though I did not deserve it for one minute and still don't. That and all the above comments, are what I believe to be the truth of God.