Are you sinless?

[chinu]

Explain?

In the beginning there was only God, No Sin. The first step towards creation was the first Sin.

 

[Desert Snake]

In the beginning there was only God, No Sin. The first step towards creation was the first Sin.

Who is 'God' in your beliefs?

 

[chinu]

Who is 'God' in your beliefs?

Sin-less, Time-less.

 

[Desert Snake]

I think I have a pretty good grasp on your beliefs, as good as possible from just reading your posts, however in this instance, it's a little confusing.

 

[chinu]

I think I have a pretty good grasp on your beliefs, as good as possible from just reading your posts, however in this instance, it's a little confusing.

Perhaps, there's shortfall in my answer because I didn't understood your question very clearly.

 

[Desert Snake]

Perhaps, there's shortfall in my answer because I didn't understood your question very clearly.

Something might be getting lost in translation. It happens.

/edit/ by 'god' I meant the deity concept

 

[Riverwolf]

Basically the question should be, if you believe in sin, yet are sinless.

Honestly, not really, as far as the modern conception goes, anyway.

If you define sin as offending this or that God, then yes I believe in it, and am simultaneously sinless and sinful, depending on the God you ask. If you define sin as simple wrongdoing, then the question becomes whether you consider right and wrong as objectively existent, or subjective to culture and situation.

 

[Desert Snake]

Honestly, not really, as far as the modern conception goes, anyway.

So, again, original sin falls flat, as we don't even have a standard meaning.

 

[Riverwolf]

So, again, original sin falls flat, as we don't even have a standard meaning.

I DEFINITELY don't believe in original sin.

The sins of the father die with the father.

 

[Sleeppy]

I DEFINITELY don't believe in original sin.

The sins of the father die with the father.

In some cases. In others, not so much. Alcoholism is inherited. Many things are inherited, and even afterward are taught.

 

[Riverwolf]

In some cases. In others, not so much. Alcoholism is inherited. Many things are inherited, and even afterward are taught.

What evidence is there that alcoholism is genetic? Even if it were, the tendency towards alcoholism isn't a sin. Instead, drinking too much to the point of hurting one's self and/or others is the problem, and actions are not inherited.

I have my father's spending problem. But I seriously doubt I inherited it genetically, but rather observed his behavior while growing up, and was never taught how to properly appreciate the value of money in itself. Even today, money has no real inherent value to me, and so without strictly enforced checks, it just slips through my fingers.

Furthermore, I have something no one in my family has to my knowledge: the potential for a gambling addiction. I know this because of an incident from my adolescence, and how I act in gambling mini-games in video games. But that's not a sin itself; it's a tendency. Because I'm aware of it, I refuse to EVER gamble real money. I'm not against the concept of gambling money in itself; all life is a gamble insofar as 99% of the choices we make are based on incomplete information. I just don't gamble for money myself because I'm aware of that flaw in me. It's not a sin; it's a tendency.

I don't believe that thoughts or desires are ever bad. No matter how good or bad they are, thoughts and desires are not an indication of the goodness or badness of a person. Actions, and actions alone, determine such things.

 

[Sabour]

Any sinless people here? And not in the 'it isn't my fault because I don't have freewill etc. type answer, but actual, sinless people.

An idea from some other threads discussing original sin, sinful nature.

There are no sinless people, yet people are not sinners, in the context given by Christians.

As muslims, here is our view on what is called "original sin", if interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hXr0jNQWaA

 

[Desert Snake]

There are no sinless people, yet people are not sinners, in the context given by Christians.

As muslims, here is our view on what is called "original sin", if interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hXr0jNQWaA

Salam
Thanks, yes that's interesting

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Any sinless people here? And not in the 'it isn't my fault because I don't have freewill etc. type answer, but actual, sinless people.

An idea from some other threads discussing original sin, sinful nature.

Sin doesn't exist! I am guilty of many things.

 

[Sleeppy]

What evidence is there that alcoholism is genetic? Even if it were, the tendency towards alcoholism isn't a sin. Instead, drinking too much to the point of hurting one's self and/or others is the problem, and actions are not inherited.

I have my father's spending problem. But I seriously doubt I inherited it genetically, but rather observed his behavior while growing up, and was never taught how to properly appreciate the value of money in itself. Even today, money has no real inherent value to me, and so without strictly enforced checks, it just slips through my fingers.

Furthermore, I have something no one in my family has to my knowledge: the potential for a gambling addiction. I know this because of an incident from my adolescence, and how I act in gambling mini-games in video games. But that's not a sin itself; it's a tendency. Because I'm aware of it, I refuse to EVER gamble real money. I'm not against the concept of gambling money in itself; all life is a gamble insofar as 99% of the choices we make are based on incomplete information. I just don't gamble for money myself because I'm aware of that flaw in me. It's not a sin; it's a tendency.

I don't believe that thoughts or desires are ever bad. No matter how good or bad they are, thoughts and desires are not an indication of the goodness or badness of a person. Actions, and actions alone, determine such things.

Gene mutation for excessive alcohol drinking found -- ScienceDaily

You're right and wrong.. Acts are inherited-- and they aren't. Alcoholism results from acts performed by a person's parents. They drank. In some cases they also condition their children from a young age, to accept the culture of alcoholism. So in that sense, you're wrong. In the sense that the act of drinking (I imagine even smelling) alcohol must be repeated by the child for the condition to have any effect, you are right. -- I say smelling, because the study was done on rats. I imagine that rats, like humans, have a whiff of what they are about to eat or drink- and smell is a sensory input that also contributes to the desire to ingest. My intuition tells me that will be in another study somewhere.

In my language, you inherited your father's spending problem. In the same way we are all taught to speak, certain things are learned during our relationship with out parental authorities. Some things are being more consciously learned than others. I don't particularly remember speaking my first word, but I know that my parents and guardians were speaking and giving me the knowledge of their language from day one. Genes are important; without them you wouldn't exist. I think people need to realize that genes are the very foundation for our human existences. Your father's genes had to have facilitated his spending problem, or else it could not have existed. The same is true for you. These are genetic and environmental factors working in concert to create who you are.

Intent plays a significant role in both thought and action. I wouldn't be quick to say thoughts and desires are never bad. A grown man having the desire to rape a young child is indeed very bad, if you've asked around.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

What evidence is there that alcoholism is genetic? Even if it were, the tendency towards alcoholism isn't a sin. Instead, drinking too much to the point of hurting one's self and/or others is the problem, and actions are not inherited.

I have my father's spending problem. But I seriously doubt I inherited it genetically, but rather observed his behavior while growing up, and was never taught how to properly appreciate the value of money in itself. Even today, money has no real inherent value to me, and so without strictly enforced checks, it just slips through my fingers.

Furthermore, I have something no one in my family has to my knowledge: the potential for a gambling addiction. I know this because of an incident from my adolescence, and how I act in gambling mini-games in video games. But that's not a sin itself; it's a tendency. Because I'm aware of it, I refuse to EVER gamble real money. I'm not against the concept of gambling money in itself; all life is a gamble insofar as 99% of the choices we make are based on incomplete information. I just don't gamble for money myself because I'm aware of that flaw in me. It's not a sin; it's a tendency.

I don't believe that thoughts or desires are ever bad. No matter how good or bad they are, thoughts and desires are not an indication of the goodness or badness of a person. Actions, and actions alone, determine such things.

Genome Biology | Full text | The genetic basis of alcoholism: multiple phenotypes, many genes, complex networks

Actually many habits, actions, mannerisms, and even opinions can have a genetic basis.

 

[Riverwolf]

Gene mutation for excessive alcohol drinking found -- ScienceDaily

You're right and wrong.. Acts are inherited-- and they aren't. Alcoholism results from acts performed by a person's parents. They drank. In some cases they also condition their children from a young age, to accept the culture of alcoholism. So in that sense, you're wrong. In the sense that the act of drinking (I imagine even smelling) alcohol must be repeated by the child for the condition to have any effect, you are right. -- I say smelling, because the study was done on rats. I imagine that rats, like humans, have a whiff of what they are about to eat or drink- and smell is a sensory input that also contributes to the desire to ingest. My intuition tells me that will be in another study somewhere.

In my language, you inherited your father's spending problem. In the same way we are all taught to speak, certain things are learned during our relationship with out parental authorities. Some things are being more consciously learned than others. I don't particularly remember speaking my first word, but I know that my parents and guardians were speaking and giving me the knowledge of their language from day one. Genes are important; without them you wouldn't exist. I think people need to realize that genes are the very foundation for our human existences. Your father's genes had to have facilitated his spending problem, or else it could not have existed. The same is true for you. These are genetic and environmental factors working in concert to create who you are.

Genome Biology | Full text | The genetic basis of alcoholism: multiple phenotypes, many genes, complex networks

Actually many habits, actions, mannerisms, and even opinions can have a genetic basis.

Okay, I asked for evidence and it was provided. Alcoholism, and therefore other mannerisms, have genetic links. I stand corrected. You guys get frubals. ^_^

I don't know about the spending problem, since I can, and do, take precautions against it. I don't really believe genes have complete dominance over us.

But when it comes to the nature vs. nurture debate, I'm very much on the side of "somewhere in between".

Intent plays a significant role in both thought and action. I wouldn't be quick to say thoughts and desires are never bad. A grown man having the desire to rape a young child is indeed very bad, if you've asked around.

I never said intention. Having the intention means the action will be carried out, if an opportunity presents itself. Imagine two people, both of whom fantasize about raping children. One of them, given the opportunity, would do so, whether feeling guilty about it or not. Even if guilt is felt, no matter how strong, there's an excuse of "I can't control myself! I'm sorry!" The other, however, recognizes that the fantasy is of an action that, if carried out, is absolutely horrible. Therefore, this person actively takes precautions to never be in a situation where the fantasy can be fulfilled, even to the point of getting psychotherapy and making a vow to "never have children". (If the person is a woman, perhaps she might get her tubes tied, to make absolutely sure.)

If raping children is too dark a subject, think of murder. Murder is a horrible thing to do. And yet, when I play Just Cause 2 (think Grand Theft Auto but frankly better IMO), I kill the in-game virtual people, not all of whom are shooting back at me, all the time with lots and lots of joy and sadistic glee. Does that make me a murderer? I think not. I would NEVER do any of that in real life, EVER.

 

[gzusfrk]

Any sinless people here? And not in the 'it isn't my fault because I don't have freewill etc. type answer, but actual, sinless people.

An idea from some other threads discussing original sin, sinful nature.

If you look at just me, then I have much sin. If you look at me through Jesus Christ then I am sinless.

 

[Desert Snake]

If you look at just me, then I have much sin. If you look at me through Jesus Christ then I am sinless.

Likewise myself then. I assume.
Anyways, that could be another thread, proving that with verses.

 

[Desert Snake]

Sin doesn't exist! I am guilty of many things.

That's interesting, but I don't have the magic decoder ring to figure out what you mean.