Are you sure you are an Atheist?

[McBell]

I think we're facing the Dunning-Kruger effect.

One at a time....

"Amoungst"?
I didn't know you're Canuckistanian.

shhhhh

 

[McBell]

Twist? I think you have not read the Qur'an.

And you would, once again, be wrong.

You are being very arrogant.

That is rich coming from you.

It clearly says it, i am not tampering with anything.

I did not say "tampering".
I said "twisting".

Go read the Qur'an yourself before you start making false accusations.

What "false accusation" have I made?

 

[Jabar]

That is some serious bending you're doing there, mate.
1) A Creator God who created both the Earth and life, but doesn't intervene in our day to day affairs is not something I believe in. But it's a more logical (there is that word again) conclusion based on the evidence around us. An all-knowing, all-powerful interventionist God is playing a strange game, imho, and isn't someone I'd worship even if they DID exist.
2) Your flawed premise about the object and the machine fits well with Deism. Observance of the natural world around us (and indeed our own capacity for reason) is the best evidence of God.
3) Not all Deists believe God is non-interventionary. The common bonds of Deism have more to do with a belief in a single God, and a rejection of revealed religions.

If any Deists here want to correct my very brief mud-map, please feel free.

As for Islam, define it anyway you like if it helps you believe it existed before the Prophet. People were submitting to a monotheistic God, of course. More than one, actually. They were also submitting to various polytheistic Gods, although the level of 'submission' varied greatly, and probably isn't a word that should really be applied. I don't think they would agree with you that 'Islam' existed since men walked the earth. Nor do I think pre-Muhammedian Arabs could be considered 'Islamic' in any sense.

So I get that you mean God pre-existed the Prophet, and I get that in your opinion worship of that God pre-existed the Prophet. But Islam? Nope. Not that I see that as particularly problematic when considered on the broader scale of things.
God was sitting around doing not much of anything for a loooooooooong time before he created the Earth, right? So no real reason to suppose he would be in a mad rush to correct the errors of earlier prophets and clarify his message, I guess.

He was never in a mad rush, look you are making false accusations. Exactly, prophets were brought to fix the polytheist believers and non believers. When Muhammad never existed, Islam was different. This is all that has happened, Islam evolved.

 

[Jabar]

And you would, once again, be wrong.


That is rich coming from you.


I did not say "tampering".
I said "twisting".


What "false accusation" have I made?

That i twisted the verse, show me how? Do not make false accusations. I gave you evidence while you sit back and disagree with everything but have no reason behind how, just because you are being ignorant.

 

[Thief]

I suspect nonbelievers participate in religious forums .....hoping....
no one actually has a 'proof'

and as long as there is nothing 'tangible'......

and as long as the argument at hand can be dismissed for lack of tangible.......

you get to call yourself an atheist ....because you can...

 

[Revoltingest]

I suspect nonbelievers participate in religious forums .....hoping....
no one actually has a 'proof'

Hope isn't needed.

I have an arrangement with believers.
They never prove there are gods.
I never prove there aren't gods.
So far, it works splendidly.

 

[Jabar]

Hope isn't needed.

I have an arrangement with believers.
They never prove there are gods.
I never prove there aren't gods.
So far, it works splendidly.

If hope is not needed, then tell me how this evidence is wrong or how this could not be divine.

 

[Revoltingest]

If hope is not needed, then tell me how this evidence is wrong or how this could not be divine.

I just see no cromulent evidence or cogent reasoning for the existence of gods.
Logic is to be used, not boldly claimed.

 

[Thief]

I just see no cromulent evidence or cogent reasoning for the existence of gods.
Logic is to be used, not boldly claimed.

logic is not fixed to the material world
and when discussing God.....that discussion would be about nonmaterial 'stuff'

 

[Nefelie]

This is a man made religion while Islam existed time immemorial. When man set foot on earth.

Says who?
...And please do not quote the Qur’an to answer, as this will not be proof.

One of my aunts would go out her way to prevent a black cat from crossing her path, my mother-in-law would throw salt over her shoulder, and my wife's girlfriend reacted when I set newly purchased running shoes on the kitchen table (it didn't matter that they had never been worn, I was informed it was bad luck to place shoes on a table). All of these women were Christian, but I don't believe their superstitious natures had much to do with their religious beliefs. I don't see much of a connection between Christian faith and superstition.

Just a bit off topic:

Superstitions did serve a purpose among simple people for many centuries: prevention.

For example: shoes on the table = dirt/bacteria where you eat = illness.

Another example: passing under a ladder = someone is probably working on the ladder = a tool might fall on your head when passing = injury or even death.

And so on...

Doctors of the time found it much easier to blame fairies and goblins in order to protect people, than explain -i.e.- what is bacteria and why they can make you ill. And that is how superstitions started.

End of the off topic comment - please continue

.

 

[Demonslayer]

How did life come into existence? How was the whole universe created?

This is how it happened:

In the beginning Nyx, who is Night, hovered in the darkness. An egg was laid by Nyx, the black-winged bird. From the upper shell of that egg was formed Ouranos, who is Heaven, and from the lower shell, Gaia, who is Earth. And Eros, who is Love, flew forth from the egg. Drawn together by Eros, Ouranos and Gaia married, and they had for children the Titan Gods and Goddesses, Okeanos, Hyperion, Rhea, and Tethys. And then Ouranos, who was father, and Gaia, who was mother, had for their child Kronos, the most cunning of all. Kronos wedded Rhea, and from Kronos and Rhea were born the Gods who were different from the Titan Gods.

 

[Jabar]

Says who?
...And please do not quote the Qur’an to answer, as this will not be proof.



Just a bit off topic:

Superstitions did serve a purpose among simple people for many centuries: prevention.

For example: shoes on the table = dirt/bacteria where you eat = illness.

Another example: passing under a ladder = someone is probably working on the ladder = a tool might fall on your head when passing = injury or even death.

And so on...

Doctors of the time found it much easier to blame fairies and goblins in order to protect people, than explain -i.e.- what is bacteria and why they can make you ill. And that is how superstitions started.

End of the off topic comment - please continue

.

Says the Qur'an, it is proof. Science is science not religion.

 

[Jabar]

This is how it happened:

In the beginning Nyx, who is Night, hovered in the darkness. An egg was laid by Nyx, the black-winged bird. From the upper shell of that egg was formed Ouranos, who is Heaven, and from the lower shell, Gaia, who is Earth. And Eros, who is Love, flew forth from the egg. Drawn together by Eros, Ouranos and Gaia married, and they had for children the Titan Gods and Goddesses, Okeanos, Hyperion, Rhea, and Tethys. And then Ouranos, who was father, and Gaia, who was mother, had for their child Kronos, the most cunning of all. Kronos wedded Rhea, and from Kronos and Rhea were born the Gods who were different from the Titan Gods.

Cool story, though not really.

 

[Nefelie]

Says the Qur'an, it is proof.

The Bible disagrees. The Sutras tell another story and the Bedes have their own view point. Orphism and Hesiod have a whole different argument (even amongst them) and the Book of the Dead disagrees with all the above. And soooo many more holy books with their own stories... ALL claiming to be written by god and/or godly guidance.

...So, what makes the Qur’an so special?


.

 

[Demonslayer]

Cool story, though not really.

No, I'm serious that's the way it happened. I can feel it.

 

[Jabar]

The Bible disagrees. The Sutras tell another story and the Bedes have their own view point. Orphism and Hesiod have a whole different argument (even amongst them) and the Book of the Dead disagrees with all the above. And soooo many more holy books with their own stories... ALL claiming to be written by god and/or godly guidance.

...So, what makes the Qur’an so special?


.

Qur'an has no errors, Bible is tampered with and contains many errors just as the other scriptures you mentioned.

 

[Demonslayer]

So, what makes the Qur’an so special?

The little apostrophe between the r and the a.

 

[Jabar]

No, I'm serious that's the way it happened. I can feel it.

Haha.

 

[Nefelie]

This is how it happened:
In the beginning Nyx, who is Night, hovered in the darkness. An egg was laid by Nyx, the black-winged bird. From the upper shell of that egg was formed Ouranos, who is Heaven, and from the lower shell, Gaia, who is Earth. And Eros, who is Love, flew forth from the egg. Drawn together by Eros, Ouranos and Gaia married, and they had for children the Titan Gods and Goddesses, Okeanos, Hyperion, Rhea, and Tethys. And then Ouranos, who was father, and Gaia, who was mother, had for their child Kronos, the most cunning of all. Kronos wedded Rhea, and from Kronos and Rhea were born the Gods who were different from the Titan Gods.

Ahhh... The Orphic egg Love that story! Thanks for mentioning it

 

[Demonslayer]

Ahhh... The Orphic egg Love that story! Thanks for mentioning it

Story? It's the truth!