Are you with UN "global" law prohibition the provocation "mock/insult/lie", about all religions ?

[Reverend Rick]

Again, I'm all for freedom of religion, people can practice whatever they want to, but no one can tell me what to do, just like I don't tell them what to do.

Exactly right! All I would add is screw the U.N. They do not control me. Never have never will! There is no one world government!

 

[Flankerl]

If satires about Islam are ever to be banned, then films which demonize Jews through out the Muslim world should be banned as well.
In short, there should be a really good reason to protect religions or cultures which often persecute others.

But but thats something entirely different. No really what would all the "cartoonists" in Saudi Arabia be doing if such a law would exist?

http://www.thememriblog.org/image/6298.JPG
http://www.thememriblog.org/image/12706.JPG


But let me guess, its not against jews. Just zionists. Always the same story.

For example in France if you deny the holocaust your fined with a huge amount of money.

Cry me a river.

 

[F0uad]

But but thats something entirely different. No really what would all the "cartoonists" in Saudi Arabia be doing if such a law would exist?

http://www.thememriblog.org/image/6298.JPG
http://www.thememriblog.org/image/12706.JPG


But let me guess, its not against jews. Just zionists. Always the same story.

Not sure what that has anything to do with the topic anyway Israel has less tolerance for other religions then the West in my opinion and certainly against Christians and Muslims.

Cry me a river.

Double standards?

 

[Vultar]

*edit*

I will second that...

 

[apophenia]

If the religion speaks truth, why would mockery matter ? Can we hurt god's feelings ? Is the faith of muslims so weak that they can't handle it ?

And is it OK for the religious to mock the non-religious ?

It seems to me that if it is right to make mocking religion illegal, then it must be right to make mocking 'kaffirs' illegal.

In my opinion, making either illegal is stupid and unnecessary - and please note Godobeyer, that the kaffirs have more moral strength - they do not feel threatened and outraged by insults as many muslims do, and they are not currently burning down mosques because of the cowardly murders done by muslims, and the burning of buddhist temples etc etc etc. Do you realise that muslims are totally disgracing themselves over this, and showing their immaturity and lack of tolerance, to the extent of murder and rampage ? How can you compare such barbaric and primitive behaviour to an 'insult' ?

What do you think ? Should muslims be legally forbidden to be insulting of kaffirs ?

Please give a clear answer to that last question Godobeyer. Explain why it should be legal for muslims to insult non-muslims, especially atheists, please.

And remember - the non-muslims are not so weak in their feelings and beliefs that they are demanding the silencing of muslims, although they are demanding that muslims stop making death threats and committing actual murder and burning temples over 'insults', which is pathetic, brutal and subhuman IMO.

So I repeat my question Godobeyer, Should muslims be legally forbidden to be insulting of kaffirs ?

Godobeyer,

This is post #52 re-posted.

I hope you will answer it, because it goes to the heart of this issue IMO.

One thing I want to add -

Many, many people find that threatening children with hell is way worse than just offensive - it is child abuse.

Children assume that adults know the truth about life. When muslims and christians say that non-believers will go to hell, that is a horrible curse on the innocence of children.

If you, or anyone else, were to tell my grandchildren that they might go to hell, To say that was offensive would simply not adequately cover how extremely violent, cruel, irresponsible and reprehensible your words are.

You do not have the right to terrify children with your superstition.

I find that so offensive that I would possibly become violent with anyone who dared to say such a thing to my grandchildren. Do you understand ? Your religious opinions are a noxious toxic threat to children. You have no right to commit psychological violence on children. I can't say it more clearly than that.

Given that this is so offensive, and damaging to children, I will never accept your right to say it to them.

So - Should muslims be legally forbidden to be insulting of kaffirs ?

And - should religious people be banned from terrifying other peoples children ?

So far you have chosen not to answer me. I'm not surprised, because when you consider my questions, you must realise that muslims ( or anyone who tells children they may burn forever in hell) are demanding the right to not only insult everyone else, but to threaten and terrify their children.

What is your answer ?

You seem to be avoiding this.

 

[darkendless]

i heard in the news that some countries will goes to UN to establish new LAW , about ban provocation against all religions .

notice :
as i considerate "mock/insult/lie" as attack
against other beliefs ,it's not forcely mean it's prohibition the debate or discuss other religions .

please vote and describe your opinion " why you vote with or against "

for me :
i voted , with law of prohibition , because i found that some people use the freedom of speech, for me the freedom of speech was used by some people to encourage the hate and racism ....etc

If people stick their beliefs out there they're open to mocking. Its not the worlds problem that people are overly sensitive about their beliefs.

Protecting beliefs will create more problems than it solves.

Just because someone beliefs in the divine does not make their beliefs and their opinions so.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hmm...There are certain religions out there that provoke people of other religions - for instance by saying that all people of other religions will be burned in eternal hellfire by the one true God. Will the UN ban cover such provocative books as well?

hmm you affraid that you would go to Hell ? , why it's important if you don't even believe in it ?

for me , i see no provocation if christians or any other religions told me that i will burn in the hell because i am disbeliever in their religions .

 

[Godobeyer]

I would support a resolution against hate speech, but you'd have to include homosexuals. Somehow I don't think the religious members would go for that.

I would support a resolution against hate speech, but you'd have to include homosexuals. Somehow I don't think the religious members would go for that.

this condition is impossible , let me explain , in religious countries , there is something undiscusstable , in muslims countries or vatican , it's not allowed to homosex .

My opinion is that it's an outrageous demand: "it's OK for us to murder you for who you are, but you're not allowed to laugh at us for what we believe."

i did not understand what mean , if you mean
"some muslims kill westerns , and they ask you to stop laugh for them ?"
just i want to tell that's not fair , to ignore the crimes that done by the west in some muslims countries , in the near past , and currently .

if this not what you meant , just skipp it plz.

 

[Godobeyer]

I am religious and strongly oppose. We need to protect speech that we dislike, otherwise freedom of speech is meaningless (not that is to a certain extent, if the speech is actually damaging).

i guess you miss the title , it's not about Islam , it's all religions
,i wounder if the christianity allow to provoke other religions ?

 

[Godobeyer]

Quintessence

Need more information. I abstain from voting due to ignorance. As with Odion, I want a reference for this first.

That said, hate speech is a valid concern and a real danger.

the most reasonable reply i see in this thread !!!!

 

[Godobeyer]

I voted no because such laws has some rather nasty implications. For example, would the movie Team America World Police be illegal under such a law?
[youtube]RPBX47zSktc[/youtube]
"Team America: World Police" - Official Trailer - YouTube
Some people could theoretically find it offensive because some of the bad guys are stereotypical Muslim terrorists that are evil for no reason. But the movie is not a parody on Muslims, its a parody on American action movies and as such, it takes what they tend do and blows it out of proportion. Like having Muslim terrorists who are evil for no reason. Or having the good guys accidently blow up the eiffel tower when trying to shoot an evil Muslim terrorist with an RPG and miss.
[youtube]HIPljGWGNt4[/youtube]
Team America: World Police (1/10) Movie CLIP - Team America Intro (2004) HD - YouTube

you are my friend , i don't remember that we are agree in something
it's suppose to be our friendship called "disgree friends "

 

[Godobeyer]

If the Islamic bloc wishes to establish international blasphemy laws, even on societies with different standards and values than their own, then they need to compromise and open up on other values.
For example, just like Islamic societies and bodies believe that their dogma should be protected by law, then they should accept our values as well. For example protection of homosexuals, of women, and of minorities.
If religion is to be regarded as above condemnation. Then homosexuality should be internationally accepted and homosexuals protected. No more condemnation or persecution of homosexuals.
If satires about Islam are ever to be banned, then films which demonize Jews through out the Muslim world should be banned as well.
In short, there should be a really good reason to protect religions or cultures which often persecute others.

is israel allow or ban homosex ?
if "yes" how about and judiasm ,the religion of the jews,it's allowed the homosex also?

for any film mock or lie or insult jews or any other religion, i am personly with ban them.
and how about the western media (movies and news ) which controlled by the jews , which represent whole time the muslims as terroriste ?

 

[Godobeyer]

I want to know two things, who enforces this law if enacted and what are the penalties?

i heard it's Arab League, for penalties : i guess it's about lieing and mocking and insulting all religions .

 

[Debater Slayer]

this condition is impossible , let me explain , in religious countries , there is something undiscusstable , in muslims countries or vatican , it's not allowed to homosex .

Yes, and you believe that Muslim countries are entitled to compose their laws however they like, correct?

If that's the case, then why should "Western" countries act any differently and implement the new law mentioned in your OP even though it may very well be going against their principles (that people are allowed to say what they want and not be punished for it)?

 

[Godobeyer]

apophenia

You are off topic when you get involt the relation between muslims (Sunna and Shai) in this subject , and you have big misunderstand informations about Islam, but inspite of that i decide to reply to it than ignore it .

Will the UN be declaring that all religious views, and any new religion, has this 'protection' ? Who will decide if a new religion (or any existing religion) is legitimate ? This is so Big Brother it is breath-taking and nauseating.

If they establish it ,all we would know .
but realy
that's nice that you ask the question and answser to it !!!

BTW ... will it be illegal for Sunnis and Shias to insult one another ? Because on any given day, the vast majority of insults to muslims come from other muslims.

again you answsered your question !!!

BTW ... will it be illegal for Sunnis and Shias to insult one another ? Because on any given day, the vast majority of insults to muslims come from other muslims.

any thing bad is illegal and forbiden in Islam .I am sunni and i considerate the Shias are our brothers and sister , if a sunni insult them , he did not represent all the sunni, and i condemne that action.

it's illegal in Islam to insult any muslim or non muslims without reason , if a some crazy/bad scholars sunni muslims do that , I condemne that , and it's not all the sunni insult the muslims "shai" .

Do muslims demand that it be illegal for Sunnis to vilify Shias ? No.

repeated question !!! no it's allow to any Sunni to vilify any Shias .

Do muslims demand that it be illegal for muslims to call non-muslims 'kaffirs' ? No.

i am tired to talking about this issue.
it's illegal to call non-muslims kaffirs without any reason .

some extrem muslims use it as insult , for bad non-muslims whom killed innocent muslims.

Do muslims demand that it be illegal for muslims (or christians) to attempt to terrify the children of the world with threats of hell and eternal punishment ? No.

wrong , in Islam all the children will go to eternal heaven .
and there is a clear Hadith about this issue .

How can all non-muslims be expected to respect a religion, when Mohammed himself said that 72 of its 73 sects are so wrong they will go to hell

it's clear Hadith ,
i guess there a current explaination , if we count there is/was more than 72 groupes/sect terrorism (whom killing innocent muslims or non-muslims) ,absolutly all they all will go to the hell .
because it's clear in Islam that who killing innocent will go certainly to the Hell .

 

[apophenia]

If they establish it ,all we would know .
but realy
that's nice that you ask the question and answser to it !!!

OK. That's another non answer

again you answsered your question !!!

Another non-answer.

any thing bad is illegal and forbiden in Islam .I am sunni and i considerate the Shias are our brothers and sister , if a sunni insult them , he did not represent all the sunni, and i condemne that action.

it's illegal in Islam to insult any muslim or non muslims without reason , if a some crazy/bad scholars sunni muslims do that , I condemne that , and it's not all the sunni insult the muslims "shai" .

repeated question !!! no it's allow to any Sunni to vilify any Shias .

None of this answers the question asked. The mutual disrespect of Sunnis and Shias is common knowledge, and not just disrespect, but serious violence. You are whitewashing the real truth. How many muslims in Iraq have died because of Shia vs Sunni violence ? Many thousands. And the same in Afghanistan.

i am tired to talking about this issue.
it's illegal to call non-muslims kaffirs without any reason .

No it isn't illegal. And yes, muslims do call non-muslims kaffirs. You know that Godobeyer. Everyone knows that. Be honest if you are going to reply at all.

some extrem muslims use it as insult , for bad non-muslims whom killed innocent muslims.

But should it be made illegal by the UN for muslims to insult non-muslims by calling them kaffirs ? Still no answer.
And anyway, you are whitewashing the issue. It is commonplace for muslims to call non-muslims kaffirs.

wrong , in Islam all the children will go to eternal heaven .
and there is a clear Hadith about this issue .

That is total avoidance of the question.

The question was not whether muslims believe that children go to hell if they die in childhood.

The question was about telling children that hell exists, and that when they die - as adults - they may burn in eternal torment. This is a terrifying idea for children, and you are blatantly avoiding the real issue.

 

[Reverend Rick]

i heard it's Arab League, for penalties : i guess it's about lieing and mocking and insulting all religions .

Yes Godobeyer, I know it is about lieing, mocking, and insulting all religions but that is not my question.

My question is,if this law is enacted, what would the punishment be if the law was broken?

 

[Caladan]

is israel allow or ban homosex ?
if "yes" how about and judiasm ,the religion of the jews,it's allowed the homosex also?

First, I love it how you change the subject. If Muslims wish to push for blasphemy laws, then they should show the courtesy and respect some basic values that are held in developed nations. If Islam condemns or persecutes homosexuals, why should developed nations protect criticism of such issues in Islam?

But to ease your pain, I'll elaborate on Israel. Homosexuality is not only legal in Israel, but same sex couples enjoy virtually all the rights that heterosexual couples enjoy. Gay pride parades are held in Israeli cities, and an active night life for the LGBT community is available too. In other words, all the things which are absent in the Muslim world when it comes to homosexuals are found in Israel.
In Judaism, the largest world conservative organization has accepted same sex marriage very recently.
You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Israel

for any film mock or lie or insult jews or any other religion, i am personly with ban them.

And do you really expect Egyptian, Suadi, Iranian, Palestinian TV stations and media to follow and prohibit the demonization of Jews? if Muslims can't show the same courtesy towards other groups, than they are not in a place to demand protection of their dogmas from satire or criticism.

and how about the western media (movies and news ) which controlled by the jews , which represent whole time the muslims as terroriste ?

Of course, the world is controlled by the Jews. But at least you claim to agree with banning stereotypes against Jews :no:
How does that work out for you?

 

[9Westy9]

I'm against the law. It's basically a "don't mock religion but feel free to mock anything else" type of law. At least that's how I see it. If the law was against hate speech then I might support it as long as there are strict guideline on what constitutes hate speech and the "punishment" for hate speech isn't too harsh.

 

[Rakhel]

No, apparently, it's a "don't mock Islam but go ahead and destroy all other religions because they are not islam" type of law