Are you with UN "global" law prohibition the provocation "mock/insult/lie", about all religions ?

[Photonic]

Can you show evidence of a significant proportion of Abrahamics whose futures were ruined by hearing about Hell?

Or shall we just assume that everyone who owns a stove is a child abuser, too?

Sure, can we count the number of Christians on this site that are only christians now because of the idea of hell?

 

[Storm]

Sure, can we count the number of Christians on this site that are only christians now because of the idea of hell?

1) You think that's a significant proportion of Christians?
2) You could do a poll and ask them, but that's hardly persuasive whichever way it goes.
3) Religious affiliation or lack thereof is not equivalent to a ruined life.

 

[Falvlun]

Can you show evidence of a significant proportion of Abrahamics whose futures were ruined by hearing about Hell?

Or shall we just assume that everyone who owns a stove is a child abuser, too?

I'm with Storm on this one. I think it a bit hyperbolic to equate religious beliefs, even exclusive religious beliefs, with child abuse. Sure, in a perfect world, I'd prefer that people didn't believe in hell and wouldn't teach their kids about it. But I think it's a far scarier world that would limit what beliefs you can and can't teach your own kid.

 

[Photonic]

1) You think that's a significant proportion of Christians?
2) You could do a poll and ask them, but that's hardly persuasive whichever way it goes.
3) Religious affiliation or lack thereof is not equivalent to a ruined life.

No, but it's not exactly different from saying that your loving grandmother will stick a super-heated knife into you for the rest of your life if you don't worship her?

How is that idea not offense to society entirely?

I wouldn't mind making a poll, but I doubt I would get honest answers. Memories like that tend to be traumatic.

 

[Storm]

No, but it's not exactly different from saying that your loving grandmother will stick a super-heated knife into you for the rest of your life if you don't worship her?

How is that idea not offense to society entirely?

I wouldn't mind making a poll, but I doubt I would get honest answers. Memories like that tend to be traumatic.

So, you got nothin' but your own hyperbole?

Duly noted.

 

[Photonic]

I'm with Storm on this one. I think it a bit hyperbolic to equate religious beliefs, even exclusive religious beliefs, with child abuse. Sure, in a perfect world, I'd prefer that people didn't believe in hell and wouldn't teach their kids about it. But I think it's a far scarier world that would limit what beliefs you can and can't teach your own kid.

I think a scarier world is one in which the parents rule over the new generation with an iron fist of hatred cloaked in love.

 

[Photonic]

So, you got nothin' but your own hyperbole?

Duly noted.

I doubt I would get much more than that out of you either, so why don't we call it even.

 

[Storm]

I doubt I would get much more than that out of you either, so why don't we call it even.

Hey, *I* didn't make a claim I can't support, now did I?

 

[Falvlun]

I think a scarier world is one in which the parents rule over the new generation with an iron fist of hatred cloaked in love.

Is this what you predict religions will be doing? Or are doing? If anything, religion seems to be getting tamer, particularly Christianity. And people are leaving those traditional religions for either looser spiritual traditions or no religion at all. Doesn't seem like the iron fist is ruling all that hard any more, and I see no reason why it will take over again where it has lost ground.

 

[Photonic]

Hey, *I* didn't make a claim I can't support, now did I?

I respectfully disagree. I think you saying that such beliefs don't harm a child are dishonest, and I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about. Anyone ever raised in a household where the belief in hell is passed down knows what I am talking about too.

 

[Storm]

I respectfully disagree. I think you saying that such beliefs don't harm a child are dishonest, and I'm sure you know exactly what I am talking about. Anyone ever raised in a household where the belief in hell is passed down knows what I am talking about too.

I'm sorry your childhood was so very traumatic. Want to compare notes?

 

[Photonic]

Is this what you predict religions will be doing? Or are doing? If anything, religion seems to be getting tamer, particularly Christianity. And people are leaving those traditional religions for either looser spiritual traditions or no religion at all. Doesn't seem like the iron fist is ruling all that hard any more, and I see no reason why it will take over again where it has lost ground.

Religion is getting tamer because people are more informed. Preconceived notions tend to give way in the light of overwhelming contradictory information. At the very least this has made people more tolerant of beliefs that are not there own.

 

[Breathe]

I wouldn't mind making a poll, but I doubt I would get honest answers.

You may be surprised.
Do it.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I call BS on that particular statement. Parents do not have the right to ruin their childrens future. It may not be a physical assault, but it can be just as harmful.

You can call B.S. all you like, but I'm glad I live in a country where a parent can raise their child in the religion or non-religion of their choice. My children are grown, my son is married and has two children and one foster child and how he raises his children is his business and not mine. My son has chosen to worship a different religion than I do and my daughter is in her third year of college and has her own place and still attends church similar to my beliefs.

I never raised a hand to either of them and they have grown up to be free thinking well adjusted functioning members of society. Their upbringing was not harmful to them. To say it was is just your biased opinion and nothing more.

"Ruining their future", is a matter of opinion and I think your opinion reeks of the B.S. you called. :yes:

 

[Photonic]

You can call B.S. all you like, but I'm glad I live in a country where a parent can raise their child in the religion or non-religion of their choice. My children are grown, my son is married and has two children and one foster child and how he raises his children is his business and not mine. My son has chosen to worship a different religion than I do and my daughter is in her third year of college and has her own place and still attends church similar to my beliefs.

I never raised a hand to either of them and they have grown up to be free thinking well adjusted functioning members of society. Their upbringing was not harmful to them. To say it was is just your biased opinion and nothing more.

"Ruining their future", is a matter of opinion and I think your opinion reeks of the B.S. you called. :yes:

Was there a point to all that?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Was there a point to all that?

Yes, I believe there is. Your mentality is that you should have a right to interfere in the religious upbringing of other folks families on the premise that you know better about what is good for a child.

Who made your opinion superior to others that gives you any rights?

How would you like it if I came to your house and took your children away because I claimed child abuse because your children did not attend church?

See how crazy that is? In a free country you should be able to raise your children as you see fit.

Let me expand on the subject. While I never spanked my children, I could have at any given time.

I could send them to military school in Alaska if I wanted.

I could live in a home with no TV, radio, computers, cellphones or even electricity if that was my decision. Ever heard of the Amish?

I could move to Africa and live in a hut if I so choose.

A parent has a right to raise their children as they see fit and others do not have a right to interfere so long as they are taking responsibility and providing for their basic needs.

Lets turn the tables, I think after 6 or 7 generations of families on welfare, I should have the right to take those children away from their welfare queen mothers and break the cycle of poverty and teach those children to be productive members of society. I would insure they learn to read and do their homework. I would make sure they do not spend time with local criminals and develop a work ethic.

Would you be OK with that?

 

[methylatedghosts]

i heard in the news that some countries will goes to UN to establish new LAW , about ban provocation against all religions .

notice :
as i considerate "mock/insult/lie" as attack
against other beliefs ,it's not forcely mean it's prohibition the debate or discuss other religions .

please vote and describe your opinion " why you vote with or against "

for me :
i voted , with law of prohibition , because i found that some people use the freedom of speech, for me the freedom of speech was used by some people to encourage the hate and racism ....etc

Ok, so I'm a little late to the party...

Rather than prohibiting the provocation of religions through mockings, insults and lies, I would prefer a ban on being provoked by them.

It's the being provoked and the uncontrolled temper tantrums that result that cause the real damage.

 

[apophenia]

What a steaming pile of donkey dung!

Parents have a right to teach their children any religion or beliefs of their choosing. It's called freedom of religion.

If I was an ignorant person, I could say to not teach your children about hell might just send them there.

The difference between you and I would be I would never tell you how to raise your children.

There is no law that says you can't teach your children about hell, your just spouting nonsense but your intentions are very telling. You want to p-tize your religious non-beliefs on my children.

You can't be satisfied with minding your own family, you feel the need to control others religious beliefs and impose your own opinion as fact calling religion child abuse.

That is the most unamerican statement I have heard in a very long time, urinating on freedom of religion.

What a totally irrelevant reply !

Your hysteria about me being unAmerican and urinating on your freedom of religion is absurd.( BTW ... I'm not American, nor do I live in America).

If you can legally induce psychosis in your children, that is an awful shame, but I am talking about claims being made in public which are offensive.

My point was that if muslims or other religious groups want protection from 'offensive statements', they should be aware that the notion of evil Santa and his eternal hell tortures being taught to children is horribly offensive to sane people. So if you want freedom of religion in the privacy of your own home, that is one thing, but if you ever try to influence my children with such psycho-filth you are effectively trying to damage my childrens' psyches, and I will treat you accordingly. OK ?

So just don't spread that insanity outside your own private world.

 

[Photonic]

Yes, I believe there is. Your mentality is that you should have a right to interfere in the religious upbringing of other folks families on the premise that you know better about what is good for a child.

Who made your opinion superior to others that gives you any rights?

How would you like it if I came to your house and took your children away because I claimed child abuse because your children did not attend church?

See how crazy that is? In a free country you should be able to raise your children as you see fit.

Let me expand on the subject. While I never spanked my children, I could have at any given time.

I could send them to military school in Alaska if I wanted.

I could live in a home with no TV, radio, computers, cellphones or even electricity if that was my decision. Ever heard of the Amish?

I could move to Africa and live in a hut if I so choose.

A parent has a right to raise their children as they see fit and others do not have a right to interfere so long as they are taking responsibility and providing for their basic needs.

Lets turn the tables, I think after 6 or 7 generations of families on welfare, I should have the right to take those children away from their welfare queen mothers and break the cycle of poverty and teach those children to be productive members of society. I would insure they learn to read and do their homework. I would make sure they do not spend time with local criminals and develop a work ethic.

Would you be OK with that?

I'm not going to respond the way you want me to until you stop moving the goalposts. I am referring only to specifically harmful ideologies. You can create all the slippery slopes you want to justify teaching the more disturbing parts of religion to children, but it won't make it acceptable.

 

[darkendless]

My point was that if muslims or other religious groups want protection from 'offensive statements', they should be aware that the notion of evil Santa and his eternal hell tortures being taught to children is horribly offensive to sane people. So if you want freedom of religion in the privacy of your own home, that is one thing, but if you ever try to influence my children with such psycho-filth you are effectively trying to damage my childrens' psyches, and I will treat you accordingly. OK ?

So just don't spread that insanity outside your own private world.

I agree. People often forget how potentially offensive their beliefs are.

I also feel religion is give far too much credit. I cannot see how teaching children that if they're bad they will spend an eternity in a place called hell is even remotely healthy.