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Aren’t we all really worshipping the same God?

Are we all really worshipping the same God but by different names?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 18.8%
  • No

    Votes: 24 50.0%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Do not worship

    Votes: 14 29.2%

  • Total voters
    48

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
How do you know this? What evidence is this based on?
Their persons and their lives. One has to determine if they are trustworthy and truthful.
How do you determine truth, if not by empirical evidence and testing?
The evidence of being trustworthy and truthful is measure by one's life example. There are none .ore trustworthy and truthful than a Messenger.

False Messengers build upon falsities.
How are you defining delusional?
By using the dictionary.

"Characterized by or holding false beliefs or judgements about external reality that are held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, typically as a symptom of a mental condition."hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia".

What one has to consider is that the Messengers are accused of being delusional. T4ue Messengers are able to prove they are of Sound mind. That is why they are persecuted, the religious leader know they are a threat to their perceived power.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
First, no God is known to exist. Second, even if a God exists what is conclusive about a Messenger being genuine? So far all you’ve done is make fantastic claims, yet no evidence.

Well since you offer no evidence for these extraordinary claims it’s dismissed as untrue.
I just see bla bla bla with such replies, the product of self guided minds.

So maybe you may not bother to reply to me, that would be good. There is nothing to debate. God is great.

Regards Tony
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I just see bla bla bla with such replies, the product of self guided minds.
You wrote this:

By using the dictionary.

"Characterized by or holding false beliefs or judgements about external reality that are held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, typically as a symptom of a mental condition."hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia".

I pointed out the flaws in your post and you can't rebut what I said with evidence.
So maybe you may not bother to reply to me, that would be good. There is nothing to debate.
It's an open forum. If you are going to make extraordinary claims you can expect questions.
God is great.
Demonstrate a God exists. Then show us this God is good.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I will compare our different beliefs and see who has beliefs that are most consistent with facts and reality.
Well, we probably both have confidence in our OWN beliefs.
Nothing strange about that, OR significant .. unless of course, you think that you are
so much more superior than I am. ;)
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Even insisting upon one God is ego (because that is what your messenger said). What is wrong with a hundred Gods and Goddesses (as if anyone knows)?
But how can "many" go back in infinity to One? The First? The Alpha?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
First, no God is known to exist. Second, even if a God exists what is conclusive about a Messenger being genuine? So far all you’ve done is make fantastic claims, yet no evidence.
Despite what Baha'is say, the God of Israel showed himself to be real all the time. Here is the story of Elijah and prophets of Baal...

1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.”​
But the people said nothing.​
22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”​
Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”​
25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.​
Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.​
27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.​
30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”​
34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.​
“Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.​
36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”​
38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.​
39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!”​
40 Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.​
Now why can't the prophets of the Baha'i Faith do something like that? I mean have their God send fire from heaven... not the killing of the prophets of Baal, because those prophets were probably worshipping the same God, just calling him by another name.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Their persons and their lives. One has to determine if they are trustworthy and truthful.

The evidence of being trustworthy and truthful is measure by one's life example. There are none .ore trustworthy and truthful than a Messenger.

False Messengers build upon falsities.

By using the dictionary.

"Characterized by or holding false beliefs or judgements about external reality that are held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, typically as a symptom of a mental condition."hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia".

What one has to consider is that the Messengers are accused of being delusional. T4ue Messengers are able to prove they are of Sound mind. That is why they are persecuted, the religious leader know they are a threat to their perceived power.

Regards Tony
I still don't see any reliable way of evaluating claims of prophecy or divine agency. Deluded people can lead impeccable lives.
If god wants His messengers to be acknowledged and believed, He has the ability to effect that, being omnipotent and all. But He does not.

But my major qualm lies in the reality of God, Himself. Why would a rational person conclude that such a personage existed?
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I still don't see any reliable way of evaluating claims of prophecy or divine agency. Deluded people can lead impeccable lives.
If god wants His messengers to be acknowledged and believed, He has the ability to effect that, being omnipotent and all. But He does not.

But my major qualm lies in the reality of God, Himself. Why would a rational person conclude that such a personage existed?
I see we have all been given the ability to know and love God and we will answer for our efforts towards knowing and loving God.

Free will requires the option between light and darkness.

God is not a person, God is the creator of it all. God is outside of all creation. A rational person can consider that intelligent has a reason and no matter how hard we try, we can not think beyond a certain capacity, meaning, that there is a capacity beyond our thoughts.

That capacity is not even God, that capacity is the reality of the Messengers, which no human can ever reach to.

Regards Tony
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I see we have all been given the ability to know and love God and we will answer for our efforts towards knowing and loving God.

Free will requires the option between light and darkness.

God is not a person, God is the creator of it all. God is outside of all creation. A rational person can consider that intelligent has a reason and no matter how hard we try, we can not think beyond a certain capacity, meaning, that there is a capacity beyond our thoughts.

That capacity is not even God, that capacity is the reality of the Messengers, which no human can ever reach to.

Regards Tony
This is a personal mythology.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
But how can "many" go back in infinity to One? The First? The Alpha?
Must there be an alpha? What is the need to go to one from many? It is the same, one arising out of nowhere or many arising out of nowhere (Gods, Goddesses and some not clearly defined. Some religions say their God is neither a male nor a female). It is an conspiracy of monotheists to promote their particular prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis all the time, one after the other, under the guise of new religions.
First Zoroaster or Moses (whichever you consider to be earlier), then Jesus, then Muhammad, then Bahaollah, then Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and so on.
 
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1213

Well-Known Member
Nice way to completely disrespect Judaism.
Why do you think I disrespected Judaism?
Of course Muslims can disregard Christianity in the same way by saying the Quran supercedes the NT part of the Bible.
Do you know any contradiction between Quran and the Bible?
Muslims don't see Jesus as a path to salvation.
Yet Quran says people should believe Jesus. Why do you think it doesn't mean what it says?
You being a Christain means Judaism is wrong (as you admit).
I have not said Judaism wrong. What do you think is wrong in Judaism?

In Biblical point of view all Christians are Jews.

If therefore the uncircumcised keep the ordinances of the law, won’t his uncircumcision be accounted as circumcision? Won’t the uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the law, judge you, who with the letter and circumcision are a transgressor of the law? For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 2:26-29
Muslims existing means Christianity is wrong too. So we can trust Muslims since they are the last significant change, and they can dismiss your interpretation of the OT and NT, right?
Why?
If you disagree, why should we truth you in how you insist Jews are wrong in how they interpret the Bible?
Have i said they are wrong?
You offered no evidence or argument. You don't even explain why anyone should by default trust Christians, and not Jews or Muslims.
I think Christians are Jews. And about Islam, can you tell what is the new thing that comes from Quran, that is not already in the Bible?
Great, so atheists suffer no consequences for using this freedom, right?
Remember, there's no freedom when there's a gun to your head.
If I tell you, you are free to put your hand in a fire. Do you think it means your hand will not burn, if you do so?

Freedom doesn't mean there is no consequences for your actions. Some actions have unpleasant consequences, and like in the case of fire, it is can be caused by you, not someone else.
We know Bibles exist (many different interpretations), but it's obvious much of the content is not factual. So you need evidence that demonstrates the non-factual bits are true in reality. Where is it?

I have no idea what you mean by your second point. Too vague.
The second point means, things go as told in the Bible and world looks like what it would look, if things went as told in the Bible.

For example we can see the signs of the great flood. Or Jews were scattered as it was promised, if the do wrongly. And it was also told they will be gathered back, as we can see nowadays happening. Obviously there is many thing that we can't directly see. But there are big things that come true as the Bible tells. And for me that is a reason to believe it.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
For example we can see the signs of the great flood. Or Jews were scattered as it was promised, if the do wrongly. But there are big things that come true as the Bible tells. And for me that is a reason to believe it.
Really? What signs?
Scattering of people. Promised or not, this is 21st Century and people are migrating from one place to another. You can find Hindus, Gujaratis, Sindhis and Sikhs in all parts of the world.
It was not different even in olden days. Indo-Aryans came from Pontic steppes to Central Asia and then to India.
You believe that. That is OK. Other people have other views. Prophecy, for me, is a farce. Remember Nostradamus.
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
I see we have all been given the ability to know and love God and we will answer for our efforts towards knowing and loving God.
OK, you think we ALL have some ability to sense God. What is it exactly we are able to sense that does NOT require assumption and belief first?

If you are correct then atheists will be able to sense God, so explain.
Free will requires the option between light and darkness.
Free will is not an actual thing. Studies show that many decisions human make are subconscious and not a conscious and deliberate decision.
God is not a person, God is the creator of it all. God is outside of all creation.
These aren't facts. These are religious ideas that have no basis in evidence.
A rational person can consider that intelligent has a reason and no matter how hard we try, we can not think beyond a certain capacity, meaning, that there is a capacity beyond our thoughts.
Intelligence is a function of living brains. If you are trying to project it onto nature then it's anthropomorphism. This is a common religious error.
That capacity is not even God, that capacity is the reality of the Messengers, which no human can ever reach to.
Another claim without any evidence. Messengers are a claim, not reality.
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Must there be an alpha? What is the need to go to one from many? It is the same, one arising out of nowhere or many arising out of nowhere (Gods, Goddesses and some not clearly defined. Some religions say their God is neither a male nor a female). It is an conspiracy of monotheists to promote their particular prophets/sons/messengers/manifestations/mahdis all the time, one after the other, under the guise of new religions.
First Zoroaster or Moses (whichever you consider to be earlier), then Jesus, then Muhammad, then Bahaollah, then Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and so on.
I guess I'm just mesmerized by that unknown beginning that started it all. I'm sitting in the sun on a chilly day, listening to the sounds and looking at the budding out of early spring and I'm in continuous awe. How did this circle of life come to be? Except for what man has misused it works so well after millions of years. Fascinating.
 
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