Argument - proving Islam through magic (probabilistic argument)

[Link]

1. If there is magic upon the Quran that prevents people from reciting the clear recitation which by language rules and intuition would otherwise be clear, it's best explained that the sources of this magic sees Quran as a threat.
2. Preventing people from understanding through magic as opposed to addressing it's arguments and content, is evil, hence this force is best explained to be evil.
3. Evil forces trying to prevent people from understanding Quran is best explained that Quran is a force of good.
4. There is content in Quran that people don't perceive due to magic as bias and other factors cannot account for it.
5. If people perceive the true recitation when they soften their hearts and do actions of light and misplace words out of context when their hearts are hardened, then it's best explained there is a force of light/good that wants us to understand Quran.
6. If there is a force of good that wants us to understand Quran and force of evil that does not want us to understand Quran, Quran mostly probably is correct in it's claims.
7. It is the case people can perceive Quran properly when they soften their hearts and turn to God and remember him often, and it is the case people cannot perceive Quran properly when they chase the life of this world or their hearts harden for other reasons.
Therefore Quran is most likely from God.

 

[viole]

It is the case people can perceive Quran properly when they soften their hearts and turn to God and remember him often, and it is the case people cannot perceive Quran properly when they chase the life of this world or their hearts harden for other reasons.

I soften my heart for Superman. Ergo, Superman exists.

How long will it take until you realise your "proofs" already assume the conclusion in their premises? I mean, watching how easy it is to destroy your arguments, should have rung some bells by now.

Ciao

- viole

 

[KWED]

1. If there is magic upon the Quran that prevents people from reciting the clear recitation which by language rules and intuition would otherwise be clear, it's best explained that the sources of this magic sees Quran as a threat.
2. Preventing people from understanding through magic as opposed to addressing it's arguments and content, is evil, hence this force is best explained to be evil.
3. Evil forces trying to prevent people from understanding Quran is best explained that Quran is a force of good.
4. There is content in Quran that people don't perceive due to magic as bias and other factors cannot account for it.
5. If people perceive the true recitation when they soften their hearts and do actions of light and misplace words out of context when their hearts are hardened, then it's best explained there is a force of light/good that wants us to understand Quran.
6. If there is a force of good that wants us to understand Quran and force of evil that does not want us to understand Quran, Quran mostly probably is correct in it's claims.
7. It is the case people can perceive Quran properly when they soften their hearts and turn to God and remember him often, and it is the case people cannot perceive Quran properly when they chase the life of this world or their hearts harden for other reasons.
Therefore Quran is most likely from God.

TBH, I've spent time with people on acid who sound more rational.
I may go through this nonsense if I have nothing better to do - like combing my carpet.

 

[Koldo]

1. If there is magic upon the Quran that prevents people from reciting the clear recitation which by language rules and intuition would otherwise be clear, it's best explained that the sources of this magic sees Quran as a threat.

This probably makes more sense to an arabic speaker.
As a non-arabic speaker all I can say is that I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[KWED]

This probably makes more sense to an arabic speaker.
As a non-arabic speaker all I can say is that I have no idea what you are talking about.

The mangled English notwithstanding, the main problem is question begging. He makes a load of unsupported assertions in that first premise, some of which are the things that he is trying to prove.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let's start with #1:

1. If there is magic upon the Quran that prevents people from reciting the clear recitation which by language rules and intuition would otherwise be clear, it's best explained that the sources of this magic sees Quran as a threat.

What other explanations did you consider before deciding that this was the "best" one?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Is he trying to refute Islam?

With friends like this. . .

 

[Link]

Let's start with #1:


What other explanations did you consider before deciding that this was the "best" one?

The other explanation is that they are both in on it, and it's a control mechanism. However, I believe this is unrealistic for various reasons.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The other explanation is that they are both in on it, and it's a control mechanism.

Who are "both"?

However, I believe this is unrealistic for various reasons.

What could possibly be unrealistic in a scenario where magic is a given?

 

[Link]

Who are "both"?

What could possibly be unrealistic in a scenario where magic is a given?

It would be the magic against it (1) and the power/magic for it (2). That is Angels and Devils and the sent ones (Ahlulbayt) and their opponents all on the same side playing a game with human minds. But I don't believe this is realistic when you study the lives of Mohammad (s) and his family (a) nor the two forces would work in opposition yet together that way.

 

[ratiocinator]

1. If there is magic upon the Quran that prevents people from reciting the clear recitation which by language rules and intuition would otherwise be clear, it's best explained that the sources of this magic sees Quran as a threat.
2. Preventing people from understanding through magic as opposed to addressing it's arguments and content, is evil, hence this force is best explained to be evil.
3. Evil forces trying to prevent people from understanding Quran is best explained that Quran is a force of good.
4. There is content in Quran that people don't perceive due to magic as bias and other factors cannot account for it.
5. If people perceive the true recitation when they soften their hearts and do actions of light and misplace words out of context when their hearts are hardened, then it's best explained there is a force of light/good that wants us to understand Quran.
6. If there is a force of good that wants us to understand Quran and force of evil that does not want us to understand Quran, Quran mostly probably is correct in it's claims.
7. It is the case people can perceive Quran properly when they soften their hearts and turn to God and remember him often, and it is the case people cannot perceive Quran properly when they chase the life of this world or their hearts harden for other reasons.
Therefore Quran is most likely from God.

You could just have missed out all the numbered points, the 'therefore', and just posted the last six words, and it would have been just as (un)convincing and just as (il)logical.

A series of baseless assertions and hypothetical 'if' statements does not a proof make.

 

[Link]

You could just have missed out all the numbered points, the 'therefore', and just posted the last six words, and it would have been just as (un)convincing and just as (il)logical.

A series of baseless assertions and hypothetical 'if' statements does not a proof make.

I have not shown examples, but, I will be showing examples of this. This would give the argument some meat and bone.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You could just have missed out all the numbered points, the 'therefore', and just posted the last six words, and it would have been just as (un)convincing and just as (il)logical.

A series of baseless assertions and hypothetical 'if' statements does not a proof make.

I have just had a brilliant idea. How about a debate between @questfortruth and @Link?

 

[ratiocinator]

I have just had a brilliant idea. How about a debate between @questfortruth and @Link?

Brilliant! Would need lots of popcorn, though...

 

[Link]

A sincere person, would say, the argument is not too bad, but what proof do you have for 4 and 7?

I will pretend a sincere person came by and said this and reply to that.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Your analysis makes sense to me, Link.

I think the case is the same for all scriptures.

I’m NOT implying there is more than one God.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It would be the magic against it (1) and the power/magic for it (2). That is Angels and Devils and the sent ones (Ahlulbayt) and their opponents all on the same side playing a game with human minds. But I don't believe this is realistic when you study the lives of Mohammad (s) and his family (a) nor the two forces would work in opposition yet together that way.

I still have no idea what "both" in your post referred to.

 

[KWED]

A sincere person, would say, the argument is not too bad, but what proof do you have for 4 and 7?

I will pretend a sincere person came by and said this and reply to that.

You don't have any evidence to support any of it.
The first premise is unsupported so the rest of it can be dismissed. Basic stuff.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

1. If there is magic upon the Quran that prevents people from reciting the clear recitation which by language rules and intuition would otherwise be clear, it's best explained that the sources of this magic sees Quran as a threat.

They first word here is 'If'. A decision point, then. So what 'if not'?

 

[Link]

They first word here is 'If'. A decision point, then. So what 'if not'?

In case of Quran since it claims there is a casting from Iblis pertaining to it and that hard hearts follow what he casts, and that results in people taking words of God way out of their place (contextualization does not happen), it would prove it false.

If Quran made no claim about this, and I made a theory, it would be my own theory. But it talked about this since it wants people to wake up and recite the clear book and not the book that the sorcery of Iblis interprets and decontextualizes and tears into pieces.

So if there be no signs of magic upon the Quran, then there is no casting of Iblis nor the locks nor the heard hearts misplacing it out of it's place, and all it talked about Iblis would be false as far his sorcery in confusing people about the wishes of the Prophets and Messengers.