Armed school official thwarts school shooter

[Curious George]

I don't think this hypothetical scenario is a deal breaker for concealed carry.

No, it does not affect concealed carry. But we were talking about wearing a gun on one's hip. When we are dealing with a teacher we are discussing someone whom the student will inevitably know is carrying a weapon. It seems that you are sidestepping the notion that a person known to carry a weapon is more imposing.

Abuse of authority is an even bigger problem for the cops whom people
think will arrive in time to defend the school's occupants from armed assault.

Well I am not so sure. I likely agree, but school officials have abused there authority plenty.

I've heard no better proposal.

Well quote simply heavy investing in education, poverty reduction, and mental health resources.

To do something always has the risk of failure, but potential for success.
To do nothing guarantees failure.

While this is actually incorrect, I am with you on the point that we should take some action on this issue.

 

[suncowiam]

It is actually refreshing for an anti-gun person to confess the truth, you would like to take away people’s right to bear arms. Well, you don’t get to do that.

No I don't get to do that. You seem to think that I'm willing to barge down your door, tie you up and go search your belongings for your guns.

You're amazing me with the amount of absurdity being pushed around.

Just because I argue that most people shouldn't own guns is not actually breaking the second amendment.

Of all people, a teacher such as yourself should actually know this.

Guess what amendment I'm fully "expressing" here. I gave you a hint.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, it does not affect concealed carry. But we were talking about wearing a gun on one's hip. When we are dealing with a teacher we are discussing someone whom the student will inevitably know is carrying a weapon. It seems that you are sidestepping the notion that a person known to carry a weapon is more imposing.

If you're advocating open carry, I oppose that.
I favor concealed carry.
There's also the option of a rapid access safe at a convenient location.

Well I am not so sure. I likely agree, but school officials have abused there authority plenty.

You'll never find a group of people who are perfect.
And despite this, society decides who may be armed because this is useful.
So worst case hypothetical scenarios don't shed much light on things.

Well quote simply heavy investing in education, poverty reduction, and mental health resources.

That is part of my comprehensive proposal.
But we must be realistic about how much additional investment schools nationwide will make.
Concealed carry is the least expensive part of the program.

While this is actually incorrect.....

We'll have to agree to disagree about the status quo being failure or not.
I say that it is, & offer the best path for improvement.

 

[suncowiam]

In my high school, students & teachers on the rifle
team (including me) were often armed in school.
The rifles were only a locker away.
Never caused a lick of trouble.

Oh, I forgot to mention that we were fully integrated.....
Boys, girls, whites, blacks, nerds, popular kids.

I wouldn't exactly say you were trained to deal with the scenarios we're talking about.

 

[suncowiam]

Maryland has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country yet they did not stop a 17 year old with a pistol, someone with a pistol did.

Laws are only as effective as how they are enforced.

Let me help you with your argument. Chicago is the worst city of gun violence with strict gun laws.

Yet, countries that have even more strict gun laws actually show a correlated decrease in gun violence.

Why do you think a city fails while entire countries are successful?

 

[Revoltingest]

I wouldn't exactly say you were trained to deal with the scenarios we're talking about.

But no one ever had an accident or went nuts.
So having guns in schools can be quite safe.
We were a disciplined bunch.

 

[suncowiam]

But no one ever had an accident or went nuts.

Yes, something changed over these generations. We still haven't root caused that though...

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, something changed over these generations. We still have root caused that though...

Mass Shootings Are Getting Deadlier, Not More Frequent
Perception might be the biggest change.
My town no longer has rifle teams, even though it was the safest varsity sport.

 

[Curious George]

If you're advocating open carry, I oppose that.
I favor concealed carry.
There's also the option of a rapid access safe at a convenient location.

The latter would be the better option if we could make it inaccessible except for the authorized personnel.

You'll never find a group of people who are perfect.
And despite this, society decides who may be armed because this is useful.
So worst case hypothetical scenarios don't shed much light on things.

You mean like hypothetical school shootings that we would be attempting to prevent?

That is part of my comprehensive proposal.
But we must be realistic about how much additional investment schools nationwide will make.
Concealed carry is the least expensive part of the program.

Just because it is an inexpensive part does not mean that it is a necessary or even beneficial part.

What do you mean by "realistic about how much additional investment schools nationwide will make?"

We'll have to agree to disagree about the status quo being failure or not.
I say that it is, & offer the best path for improvement.

Game theory? It is decidedly proven that sometimes doing nothing is the best choice. While it may not be so in this case, you cannot rationally maintain that doing nothing is always guaranteeing failure.

 

[Revoltingest]

You mean like hypothetical school shootings that we would be attempting to prevent?

I propose planning based upon actual & likely scenarios.
Inventing highly improbable onesy shouldn't drive public policy.

Just because it is an inexpensive part does not mean that it is a necessary or even beneficial part.

This is the real world, where cost will drive decisions.

What do you mean by "realistic about how much additional investment schools nationwide will make?"

Schools have budgets, which can change, but are always under pressure.
Some propose metal detectors & armed guards at schools.
We know this will happen in very very few places.
So it's not a general measure.

Game theory? It is decidedly proven that sometimes doing nothing is the best choice. While it may not be so in this case, you cannot rationally maintain that doing nothing is always guaranteeing failure.

You propose that doing nothing is best in this case because "game theory"?
Pbbbtttttt!

 

[suncowiam]

Mass Shootings Are Getting Deadlier, Not More Frequent
Perception might be the biggest change.
My town no longer has rifle teams, even though it was the safest varsity sport.

Perception? Frequency is one thing but "Deadlier" is still a qualifier for being worse? Then there's the whole how do we compare against other countries aspect? I don't know if you can blame most of this on media and perception...

Is it because of the guns being used? Were these six shooters or muskets in the past?

Every gun advocate says an AR is weak but maybe it's not about the stopping power but the ease of shooting and reloading?

And who needs stopping power when everyone is just sitting duck anyways...

 

[Curious George]

I propose planning based upon actual & likely scenarios.
Inventing highly improbable onesy shouldn't drive public policy.

About what highly improbable scenario are you talking? I think you have misunderstood.

This is the real world, where cost will drive decisions.

Cost can drive decisions, but what limit do you propose?

Schools have budgets, which can change, but are always under pressure.
Some propose metal detectors & armed guards at schools.
We know this will happen in very very few places.
So it's not a general measure.

You propose that doing nothing is best in this case because "game theory"?
Pbbbtttttt!

No, I propose that your statement earlier was false in some situations. It is proven already. You made a sweeping generalization, and you were wrong.

 

[Revoltingest]

Perception? Frequency is one thing but "Deadlier" is still a qualifier for being worse? Then there's the whole how do we compare against other countries aspect? I don't know if you can blame most of this on media and perception...

Hard to say.
Media create perception, & sensationalizing shootings can inspire copycats.
But this is moot because the media won't be controlled.

Is it because of the guns being used? Were these six shooters or muskets in the past?

22LR rifles (mostly single shot).

Every gun advocate says an AR is weak....

Untrue.

......but maybe it's not about the stopping power but the ease of shooting and reloading?

Both are factors.

And who needs stopping power when everyone is just sitting duck anyways...

I'd rather not advise perps on weapon evaluation.

 

[Revoltingest]

About what highly improbable scenario are you talking? I think you have misunderstood.

Cost can drive decisions, but what limit do you propose?

No, I propose that your statement earlier was false in some situations. It is proven already. You made a sweeping generalization, and you were wrong.

We'll have to agree to disagree about how to formulate public policy regarding guns.
I don't find much common ground.

 

[suncowiam]

Hard to say.
Media create perception, & sensationalizing shootings can inspire copycats.
But this is moot because the media won't be controlled.

22LR rifles (mostly single shot).

Untrue.

Both are factors.

I'd rather not advise perps on weapon evaluation.

MOST gun advocates say the AR is weak? I get that argument a lot towards banning the AR... Of course, I don't know squat about guns.

 

[Curious George]

We'll have to agree to disagree about how to formulate public policy regarding guns.
I don't find much common ground.

What? I asked questions and you respond with an observation of us lacking common ground?

 

[Revoltingest]

MOST gun advocates say the AR is weak? I get that argument a lot towards banning the AR... Of course, I don't know squat about guns.

The M16 is the military version of the AR15,
& it went to war in Viet Nam. Not so weak, eh.

 

[Revoltingest]

What? I asked questions and you respond with an observation of us lacking common ground?

Yeah...it feels like unproductive bickering.

 

[suncowiam]

The M16 is the military version of the AR15,
& it went to war in Viet Nam. Not so weak, eh.

I personally don't think any guns are weak but... I hear from gun experts how some guns are weak.

 

[Revoltingest]

I personally don't think any guns are weak but... I hear from gun experts how some guns are weak.

Even self proclaimed gun experts have their prejudices & erroneous beliefs.
I don't claim to be an expert, but I see much BS being claimed as fact.
The AR15 is quite capable.
Some info on the common caliber....
5.56×45mm NATO - Wikipedia