As a religious person, do you support the death penalty?

[Midnight Pete]

Ding ding, Hitler already caused the Holocaust. This is known. Go back in time, he's in your arms as a baby. YOU KNOW this will happen. Kill him or not?

No! The baby in my arms is innocent. Even if I tried to change the past, it wouldn't work. Changing the timeline so drastically would of course create an alternate timeline in which any number of butterfly-effect changes would occur. This year of 2010 as we know it would cease to exist. Killing Baby Adolf may not stop the Holocaust from happening at all. The Alternate 2010 could turn out to be much worse than what we know today. Nuclear Armageddon could already have happened when I step out of that DeLorean.

 

[Zadok]

You are assuming that criminal will comply. Criminals in most cases are criminals because they refuse to comply with authority.

My suggestion does not matter if they comply or not. When their credits accumulate enough the situation will resolve itself by the execution of the criminal. One could argue that the resulting death was the choice of the criminal (of which they have complete control) and not the act of the state.

Zadok

 

[ninerbuff]

No! The baby in my arms is innocent. Even if I tried to change the past, it wouldn't work. Changing the timeline so drastically would of course create an alternate timeline in which any number of butterfly-effect changes would occur. This year of 2010 as we know it would cease to exist. Killing Baby Adolf may not stop the Holocaust from happening at all. The Alternate 2010 could turn out to be much worse than what we know today. Nuclear Armageddon could already have happened when I step out of that DeLorean.

While what you say may be true, you don't know what could have happened. What if people that were persecuted had children that went on to be leaders? What if WWII never happened? We beefed up the defense and created the H bomb because of war.
Not saying that it would have happened that way, but thinking about all the people that died in the Holocaust would lead me to believe letting Hitler live would deny innocent people life.

 

[painted wolf]

It's just a hypothetical question. Of course we can't change "what is" now. Just a question on whether if you could have done it if you knew what Hitler would end up do. A yes or no is a basic answer.

um... if you can't change "what is" than killing Hitler is a non-issue. Somehow "what is" will happen anyway.

Not to mention the break down in causality that this hypothetical question brings up.

wa:do

 

[AxisMundi]

Actually the problem is we have made more "social problems" criminal offenses... such as minor non-violent drug problems. When you have a state that will throw anyone found with a single joint into prison (rather than into rehab) you will have an explosive prison population.

Our rates of violent crime have not significantly increased in the country for several decades... indeed in many places they have significantly decreased. Yet our prison population is still growing so that now we have the highest percentage of the population behind bars than any other nation.

Either Americans are the most lawless people on the planet, or something is wrong with the system.

wa:do

Violent crimes per capita are indeed quite high compared to several decades ago.

However, I do agree that we jail people for nonsence like today's pot prohibition.

The 13 billion plus we spend on the "war on Drugs" could be better used elsewhere.

 

[Cypress]

Problem with death penalty: It cannot be withdrawn.
Human justice is not perfect, there are cases were an innocent person is convicted.
If a person has been sentenced to prison for murder and is later found to be innocent you can set him free again, but what to do if that person has been executed?
Therefore I am against death penalty.

 

[painted wolf]

U.S. crime rate continues 20-year downward trend | The Columbus Dispatch
The Straight Dope: Is the world more dangerous now than when we were kids?

Also remember that several things we think of as violent crime today (marital rape for example) were not considered so several decades ago.. and some segments of the population (minorities) were less likely to be able to report violent crimes. (why report when the local law enforcement was part of the KKK?)

wa:do

 

[AxisMundi]

U.S. crime rate continues 20-year downward trend | The Columbus Dispatch
The Straight Dope: Is the world more dangerous now than when we were kids?

Also remember that several things we think of as violent crime today (marital rape for example) were not considered so several decades ago.. and some segments of the population (minorities) were less likely to be able to report violent crimes. (why report when the local law enforcement was part of the KKK?)

wa:do

Firstly, you will note I stated clearly "several decades ago". I am quite well aware of what has been occuring the past two decades, having lived five decades.

Secondly I am quite well aware that much crime went unreported, such as domestic abuses and rape.

But that twenty year decline has not approached the level of several decades ago,a s your link shows.

 

[painted wolf]

Several decades ago there was more violent crime that no one cared to report as such.
Today we report it, inflating our modern statistics.

Having lived five decades you should recognize the extremely pernicious nature of anti-minority violence that was swept under the rug all those decades ago.

wa:do

 

[Midnight Pete]

While what you say may be true, you don't know what could have happened. What if people that were persecuted had children that went on to be leaders? What if WWII never happened? We beefed up the defense and created the H bomb because of war.
Not saying that it would have happened that way, but thinking about all the people that died in the Holocaust would lead me to believe letting Hitler live would deny innocent people life.

It would seem to go along lines of conventional reasoning that No Hitler = No Holocaust. For all we know, the Nazi Party itself would not have come into its full expression without Hitler. You might say that Hitler was to the Nazi Party what Fred Phelps is to the Westboro Baptist Church.

There is a second option. Instead of killing Baby Adolf, you as a time-traveller could simply alter the trajectory of his life in such a way as to prevent him from rising to power. The life of Adolf Hitler has been amply documented, has it not?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Problem with death penalty: It cannot be withdrawn.
Human justice is not perfect, there are cases were an innocent person is convicted.
If a person has been sentenced to prison for murder and is later found to be innocent you can set him free again, but what to do if that person has been executed?
Therefore I am against death penalty.

So you would not kill Hitler if given the chance? So you would not make yourself judge jury and executioner in Hitler's case?


BTW this thread has Godwinned itself about 5 or 6 times already.

 

[McBell]

BTW this thread has Godwinned itself about 5 or 6 times already.

What the hell is "godwinned"?

 

[Midnight Pete]

I support the death penalty, but the crime must be a heinous murder, and must be proved way beyond the shadow of any doubt. If the guilty has remorse for their actions, I believe God can and will forgive them.

I agree 100%

 

[Politesse]

Just wondering how many religious people here do support it and why.

I do, out of compassion for the victims of the justice system.

It's a secular habit, I think, to imagine that death is the worst thing that can befall a person. It's my opinion that a life in the manmade hell of our prison system without hope of release is far, far worse than a humane execution.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I do, out of compassion for the victims of the justice system.

It's a secular habit, I think, to imagine that death is the worst thing that can befall a person. It's my opinion that a life in the manmade hell of our prison system without hope of release is far, far worse than a humane execution.

And yet in the bargaining exchanges of defense counsel with the prosecution, life imprisonment is seen as a preferable to the death-penalty. But is life behind bars really favourable to execution? If I was a convicted felon and I had to choose, I'd go with the needle.

 

[AxisMundi]

Several decades ago there was more violent crime that no one cared to report as such.
Today we report it, inflating our modern statistics.

Having lived five decades you should recognize the extremely pernicious nature of anti-minority violence that was swept under the rug all those decades ago.

wa:do

I am aware, again, that gang violence in LA began int he 1950's.

I am also aware that one msut keep in mind the rise in population as well.

I am also aware that the present prison system just doesn't work.

 

[McBell]

I am also aware that the present prison system just doesn't work.

Got that right.

Seems to me that those who would rather put people deserving the death penalty in prison for life instead of just killing them should be working to get the prison systems in the USA fixed to better handle said proposal.

 

[AxisMundi]

Got that right.

Seems to me that those who would rather put people deserving the death penalty in prison for life instead of just killing them should be working to get the prison systems in the USA fixed to better handle said proposal.

I do.

I don't even get the automated response letters from my Congresscritters anymore.

 

[savethedreams]

Just wondering how many religious people here do support it and why.

Under no circumstances shall i man kill another man.

now if your saying 'self defense' what does the men who is going to kill the guy 'usually someone who was not involved in the case' has business killing another men.

When I think of death penalty I think of a man who doesn't know another man who is told to kill this man because another man/women/judge told him to do so based on the evidence of another man they don't know? ... yeah i disagree.

 

[Rakhel]

What the hell is "godwinned"?

He was referring to Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Though I think Pete is the only one that saw that.