As a religious person, do you support the death penalty?

[painted wolf]

Actually it's ID Discovery channel. Not into hollywood drama.

Just as bad IMHO. Discovery is just as much hollywood drama as anything else. OMG SHARKS!

wa:do

 

[ninerbuff]

Just as bad IMHO. Discovery is just as much hollywood drama as anything else. OMG SHARKS!

wa:do

Nah, not even close. Shows I watch on forensics are from cases that were basically solved and they showed how forensics worked on locating or discovery of perp.

 

[painted wolf]

Nah, not even close. Shows I watch on forensics are from cases that were basically solved and they showed how forensics worked on locating or discovery of perp.

Actually I know exactly what shows you are watching, I've watched them myself. If you don't see why shows like that lead people into false expectations (like speedy and certain results) then I'm sorry.

but here are a couple of examples:
Crime Labs and Dismal Science | WBUR and NPR - On Point with Tom Ashbrook
Latest Texas Forensic Flap Shows Major Gaps in Oversight of Scientific Evidence | The Justice Project
The case of the vanishing taxonomists - The Globe and Mail

Most murder cases have no forensic evidence of worth in trial... the money simply isn't there to fund it. But everyone expects it and demands it... the stress placed on ill equipped, overloaded labs is tremendous.

wa:do

 

[Kathryn]

Lol, you haven't read ANY posts quoting scripture at all telling us non believers to repent? WOW. You must only read your own posts then.
And tell me when was the last time you had an atheist come to your door asking you to give up religion? But has a religious person ever came to your door preaching religion?
And last, how is it a double standard for me? If your god sets forth rules and they aren't being followed, and I point them out, that's just re enforcement. It's no different than an objection in a competitive game that has rules. If a rule is broken, and it could affect my "team" I will object and point it out.
?

Here was my question to you, which you conveniently ignored as you went winding off on yet another tangent:

And finally - Which Christians on this thread have told you or any other non Christian to repent? I may have missed that, but off the cuff I don't recall anyone telling you to do so.

I never said that some religious people don't preach repentence. What I DID say is that Christians believe that ALL must repent - starting with themselves. General repentence is a tenet of the Christian faith.

To be honest, it's been DECADES since any sort of religious person came to my door proselytizing (I was always hoping that Prince would show up when he was going door to door for the Jehovah's Witnesses, but so far he hasn't shown up yet). In fact, I can't remember the last time that happened. On the rare occassion that it has in the past, I considered it sort of pitiful, but I knew they were at least sincere in their endeavors, and that's sort of touching in a way.

As for "my god setting up rules," it seems apparent to me in reading the bible that though the NT teaches forgiveness and mercy, it also teaches a sense of responsibility for the good of the community and the protection of the innocent. So, I believe in rare circumstances, capital punishment can be a valid form of protection for a society.

QUOTEThe difference is "your games rules" are trying to be enforced by some to people who aren't even involved in it. Get it?

Yeah, I get it - you, as a non Christian, have set up a thread in which no answer that a Christian can give can be "correct." Either way the question you posed is answered can be twisted by someone who is not even "on the team."

 

[dawny0826]

Remember this post if you're going to argue against abortion being murder.

Personally, I do believe that abortion is murder and as such, I have never had nor do I plan to ever have an abortion.

With this said, this is my choice. I've decided that I can continue to feel this way and practice what I preach .

I no longer have the desire to dictate the choices and options that others have.

 

[javajo]

Personally, I do believe that abortion is murder and as such, I have never had nor do I plan to ever have an abortion.

With this said, this is my choice. I've decided that I can continue to feel this way and practice what I preach .

I no longer have the desire to dictate the choices and options that others have.

Yeah, while abortion is not good, and 95% is done out of convenience sake, I don't like the idea of the government or anyone having that much invasion into our private lives. Some would prohibit abortion even if a teenager were raped or incest was committed, or if a life was in danger. That should be the choice of the individual in that circumstance, not an outside entity. Its a tough thing, though, really tough.

 

[ninerbuff]

Here was my question to you, which you conveniently ignored as you went winding off on yet another tangent:



I never said that some religious people don't preach repentence. What I DID say is that Christians believe that ALL must repent - starting with themselves. General repentence is a tenet of the Christian faith.

ALL must repent sounds like non believers need to do it too.

As for "my god setting up rules," it seems apparent to me in reading the bible that though the NT teaches forgiveness and mercy, it also teaches a sense of responsibility for the good of the community and the protection of the innocent. So, I believe in rare circumstances, capital punishment can be a valid form of protection for a society.

Calling people to follow the rules ain't wrong if they aren't being followed.

Yeah, I get it - you, as a non Christian, have set up a thread in which no answer that a Christian can give can be "correct." Either way the question you posed is answered can be twisted by someone who is not even "on the team."

There is no "correct" answer is right because the bible contradicts itself.

 

[McBell]

Calling people to follow the rules ain't wrong if they aren't being followed.

Provided the rules you call them on are actually rules and just figments of your imagination...

There is no "correct" answer is right because the bible contradicts itself.

Wow.
Do you have any idea just how badly you destroyed your own argument?

 

[ninerbuff]

Actually I know exactly what shows you are watching, I've watched them myself. If you don't see why shows like that lead people into false expectations (like speedy and certain results) then I'm sorry.

but here are a couple of examples:
Crime Labs and Dismal Science | WBUR and NPR - On Point with Tom Ashbrook
Latest Texas Forensic Flap Shows Major Gaps in Oversight of Scientific Evidence | The Justice Project
The case of the vanishing taxonomists - The Globe and Mail

Most murder cases have no forensic evidence of worth in trial... the money simply isn't there to fund it. But everyone expects it and demands it... the stress placed on ill equipped, overloaded labs is tremendous.

wa:do

I will agree with you. I do believe it's biased. I'm more than sure that there are murder suspects that may be freed on DNA evidence, but if the tests are deemed too expensive and fruitless to the case, I'm sure it's nixed.
But in cases where DNA (as well as reliable solid evidence) have already convicted a death row inmate, I wouldn't really bat an eye if they were capitally punished.

 

[painted wolf]

But in cases where DNA (as well as reliable solid evidence) have already convicted a death row inmate, I wouldn't really bat an eye if they were capitally punished.

you have a lot of faith. Especially with what you just said above this:

I will agree with you. I do believe it's biased. I'm more than sure that there are murder suspects that may be freed on DNA evidence, but if the tests are deemed too expensive and fruitless to the case, I'm sure it's nixed.

wa:do

 

[ninerbuff]

you have a lot of faith. Especially with what you just said above this:


wa:do

Don't see a contradiction. If DNA evidence convicted them of murder and put them on death row, then I'm fine with it. If they are on death row and had no access to having DNA evidence, I can't be sure on capital punishment.

 

[painted wolf]

Don't see a contradiction. If DNA evidence convicted them of murder and put them on death row, then I'm fine with it. If they are on death row and had no access to having DNA evidence, I can't be sure on capital punishment.

You don't see how admitting that the system is prone to bias (not to mention poor methodology and outdated faulty equipment) and then saying that if there is DNA evidence you don't blink and accept it totally is contradictory? That is a very dangerous faith to have when someones life is on the line.
Slashdot | FBI Fights Testing For False DNA Matches
The New York Times > Log In

wa:do

 

[ninerbuff]

You don't see how admitting that the system is prone to bias (not to mention poor methodology and outdated faulty equipment) and then saying that if there is DNA evidence you don't blink and accept it totally is contradictory? That is a very dangerous faith to have when someones life is on the line.
Slashdot | FBI Fights Testing For False DNA Matches
The New York Times > Log In

wa:do

I'm saying there is a significant difference in results if there has been a DNA test, compared to not having one at all. That's where the bias lies. Some people will be condemned to a sentence based just on their record and no DNA evidence to prove guilt.
Simply, if a death row inmate was convicted with DNA, I really don't have a problem with it. If NO DNA test was done at all, then yes I could definitely have a problem with the sentence.

 

[painted wolf]

So the fact that DNA results can be rigged, botched and otherwise flubbed doesn't matter to you... just so long as the test is done? :areyoucra
Why bother with the test at all then?

wa:do

 

[ninerbuff]

So the fact that DNA results can be rigged, botched and otherwise flubbed doesn't matter to you... just so long as the test is done? :areyoucra
Why bother with the test at all then?

wa:do

What are the actual percentages of botched tests compared to successful tests? And aren't these tests refuted by the defense if they seem tainted? Human error can and will happen. There is no such thing as 100% reliability when it comes to the death penalty.

 

[Zadok]

As a Christian I believe in the death penalty. I believe in capital punishment.

Some say they prefer a penalty of life in prison. I find such thinking very unjust and extremely selfish because such individuals force someone that is innocent to deal with the convicted and very dangerous element so much so that the slightest possible mistake would result in the unnecessary death of additional innocence. There is no way to guarantee that a person that murders will not murder again. No one should have to live with the constant threat for their life – and the guards of a prison have that unnecessary risk.

There is one and only one way to guarantee the safety of innocent individuals and that is to execute those that are proven to deliberately disregard the life of another. To suggest otherwise is unjust and forces others to pay – perhaps even with their life – for such convoluted logic. Now if someone were to say – I will take those convicted of vices worthy of death and I will see to it that they are held and should they again take a life – I offer my life as justification of my belief. Then I would believe such is really not for capital punishment. But those that sluff the responsibility and risk on to others and refuse to deal directly with such elements themselves – I see as nothing more than pure hypocrisy.

Zadok

 

[ninerbuff]

As a Christian I believe in the death penalty. I believe in capital punishment.

Some say they prefer a penalty of life in prison. I find such thinking very unjust and extremely selfish because such individuals force someone that is innocent to deal with the convicted and very dangerous element so much so that the slightest possible mistake would result in the unnecessary death of additional innocence. There is no way to guarantee that a person that murders will not murder again. No one should have to live with the constant threat for their life – and the guards of a prison have that unnecessary risk.

There is one and only one way to guarantee the safety of innocent individuals and that is to execute those that are proven to deliberately disregard the life of another. To suggest otherwise is unjust and forces others to pay – perhaps even with their life – for such convoluted logic. Now if someone were to say – I will take those convicted of vices worthy of death and I will see to it that they are held and should they again take a life – I offer my life as justification of my belief. Then I would believe such is really not for capital punishment. But those that sluff the responsibility and risk on to others and refuse to deal directly with such elements themselves – I see as nothing more than pure hypocrisy.

Zadok

Here's a question off the cuff: Back before the Holocaust, if you had baby Adolf Hitler in your arms, and full well knowing the atrocities he would commit against the Jews and world, could you kill him?
I know I could if I had that info.

 

[painted wolf]

What are the actual percentages of botched tests compared to successful tests? And aren't these tests refuted by the defense if they seem tainted? Human error can and will happen. There is no such thing as 100% reliability when it comes to the death penalty.

That is the problem... we don't know.
We do know that the forensic system in many states is deeply troubled for many reasons, this includes DNA testing facilities. States are finding fraud and other lapses in their forensics departments every year.

The system is in desperate need of help... to the detriment of all parties involved.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

Here's a question off the cuff: Back before the Holocaust, if you had baby Adolf Hitler in your arms, and full well knowing the atrocities he would commit against the Jews and world, could you kill him?
I know I could if I had that info.

Why not just change his upbringing? If you have the power to kill an infant, you have the power to save it too.
Unless you think our destinies are pre-determined and babies are born evil?

wa:do

 

[Walkntune]

This is a tough question.We want to know there is some kind of determent from the act of killing.
I am not sure if the death penalty is appropriate and to some may even be an easy way out.