As I read the Quran, which parts should I ignore?

[psychoslice]

My friend these words the commentators of the Koran ?
What do we do ??
This is a problem of the Koran ?
Did I say the wrong
Here are some sources ( about the meaning of the word Altkaah
1-) Are not believers take the unbelievers rather than believers and who does it is not of God in everything but the fatwa them Tqap God and Ihdhirkm himself to God and determination ( [ Al-Imran: 28] .
Ibn al-Qayyim may God have mercy on him , said:
" Pious slave says that contrary to what people think of prevention is hated it if it did not speak religiously sanctioned lying . "
Finished " provisions of the dhimmis " ( 2/1038 ) .
Saying: ( However, the fatwa Tqap any of them : ) , but he was afraid of some countries or in times of evil , he may not Atekayam phenomenon Bbatnh and intention ;
3 - said Sarkhasi in Mabsoot c 24 p. 45 ( ... and Hasan al-Basri God's mercy: the pious believer Prize to the Day of Resurrection ,
4
) Ghazali : the science of religion
)4- And this is true - as noted above - because the pious religion of the Koran, and the religion of the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him - grandfather of Imam al-Baqir , peace be upon him -

Look,I don't have any beliefs whatsoever of the Koran, its just someone's belief system, nothing to do with me.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Yes, I referred back to the OP. As the Quran is a unit that has to be taken as a whole, this needs to be done by someone that knows the Quran well, and the best choice is someone that memorizes it more. The reason behind this is the vocabulary used in the Quran, as some key words are used in synonyms/contexts I do not know. I'm not like that, so my best chance is to make extensive researches of the verses that connect to each other and give a comprehensive idea of each of those points. Remember also that in my views some points are given details in hadeeth.

I'll go over them and see what I can do. But don't expect much from me. I came to RF for fun in the first place.

Orderly withdrawal ???

Hey Smart_Guy,

I always appreciate our exchanges! So, I'm re-posting the list from the OP here. As I read the Quran, these were some of the notes I took. These are summaries, not meant to be perfect translations, but I was trying to capture the spirit of the ideas. As I said in the OP, the ideas listed below were not just mentioned once or twice. Almost all of them are repeated many times.

So do you believe that these are valid ideas in Islam?:

- 1:7 - Allah is forever angry with Christians and Jews
- 2:106 - Some verses can be abrogated (replaced), by later verses.
- 2:178 - Slavery is ok.
- 2:193 - Fight non-believers until there are no non-believers.
- 2:216 - Participate in violent Jihad even if you don't want to.
- 2:223 - Have sex with your wife whenever YOU want to.
- 3:118 - 3:120 - Non-believers are not to be trusted - in many ways
- 3:157 - Dying as a martyr is a great idea.
- 4:89 - Kill apostates
- 5:45 - Eye for an eye, life for a life
- 5:57 - Don't criticize religion
- 6:60 - You can be guilty of thought crimes
- 7:166 - Think of Jews as monkeys
- 8:73 - Create a caliphate
- 9:1 - Break treaties with non-believers
- 9:29 - Fight and subdue non-believers, have them pay the jizyah
- 13:41 - Keep taking the lands of the non-believers
- 23: 6 - Wives and slaves are possessions
- 24:8 - Ways for wives to avoid stoning
- 24:60 - Old women shouldn't expect to get married
- 25:53 - Fresh water and salt water don't mix
- 29:28 - Sodomy is the worst sin
- 31:6 - Music and singing are discouraged
- 47:35 - Don't ask for peace if you have the upper hand
- 57:10 - Conquerers get the best reward
- 68:9 - Non-believers will hope for compromise - don't compromise with them
- 86:13 - Laws are in the Quran

Thank you
Great questions and deserve Search

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Look,I don't have any beliefs whatsoever of the Koran, its just someone's belief system, nothing to do with me.

here is a dialogue and we remain friends in the first place
Just so said to you I do not
No harm,
on any person here
The oldest I only know about Islam Full honestly

 

[Smart_Guy]

Orderly withdrawal ???

That's called respectful withdrawal and reflecting on one's own words, by the way.

Sorry brother. I'll have to apologize from conversing with you in religion. Please learn the differences between Sunna Islam and Shia Islam and refrain from falsely accusing others with lying (or similar) as a way of debate first then maybe I'll consider further discussions.

 

[psychoslice]

here is a dialogue and we remain friends in the first place
Just so said to you I do not
No harm,
on any person here
The oldest I only know about Islam Full honestly

That means nothing at all.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

That's called respectful withdrawal and reflecting on one's own words, by the way.

Sorry brother. I'll have to apologize from conversing with you in religion. Please learn the differences between Sunna Islam and Shia Islam and refrain from falsely accusing others with lying (or similar) as a way of debate first then maybe I'll consider further discussions.

My friend -
1a - I do not mean to offend you?
I hope that this is not considered out of fear or other

2. We are in an open dialogue
3. The exchange of ideas is a humanist approach to sound
4. I presented evidence of Sunni and Shiite school school
( Imam al-Ghazali of the Sunni school )
5. I did not offer you my position Profile
Because this is another topic
5. questions are a great friend eKur questions
6. recent all my questions : Are the One God
Is pretty Topics for discussion
Wait answer you personally
Greetings to you with love Christian puris

 

[Shad]

The thing is, I think I do ignore all (or at least most) of those verses for now. They seem to be secondary and only needed if we were looking for laws. Otherwise it wouldn't have confused me to give direct comments. Remember, what matters in Islam the most is believing God is the only one worthy of worship and Muhammad is his prophet and creation (not divine). Everything else can be dropped at some point, even prayers, the first thing people are asked for in the judgement day.

I do not mind a interpretation basis which is not based on literalism. However one can not maintain the text is from God while holding to objective morality is from God. If a view of a concept is one which is acceptable, moral, at a time to unacceptable, immoral, later this creates a situation in which God has subjective morality. Any claims of objective morality is a facade of accepting a certain authority's subjective views on morals rather than objective. God merely becomes a powerful authority but not "the" authority. This has massive implications for other concepts associated with God

 

[Shad]

Christianity does not carry this concept !!!
The relationship between God and man is a kind of sharing love ??
1 - We say that God our Father
The son is not a slave to the Father
2 - Christian idea of abolition of slavery
3. In the spirit of the Spirit of God has the right to worship
4. Christianity does not bear the idea of authoritarian
5. Christian religion calls for peace through the concept of God's presence among us
This concept differs from the ideology of the Islamic ??
1. Islam is the enemy of God man says
( Surat al-Anfal , etc.)
2. The concept of hostility between God and man is at the heart of the Islamic ideology
3. I wish you could put this considerations of separation between Christianity and Islam in the core(important ) teachings

Christian and Judaism are based on a family narrative, the Patriarchs. This provides a foundation concept of family, father to son, etc in theological narratives. The Patriarch narrative is used to identify major tribal and kingdom leaders. However in Islam the Prophet was never a leader of his own tribe, never a leader of the community before prophethood and treated as a black sheep during the early years of prophethood. There is also no external family line between Muhammad and Ishmael, it is only found in the Quran. While the biblical narratives cover a much longer time-line and use this theological narrative excessively. This narrative is not present since there is little basis for it. Hence the reliance on external family lines removed from Muhammad's by millenia. His family between himself and Ishmael accomplished little and undermined any use of a family narrative.

 

[Union]

You just admitted you modified it while denying you modified it. Also this modification is not found in any major translations so there is no reason for me to accept your translation over professions. If there was such a pattern other classical Arabic speakers would have done so but have not. Standard Arabic is not Classical Arabic so you knowledge is meaningless. Again I have no reason to accept your view while I have dozens of translations which disagree and agree with me. Lexicons for Arabic and Quran Arabic agree with me.



The treaty is history.... The treaty was made before sirah and hadith. I guess you never bothered to look at it otherwise you would have figured this out. It says a lot about the Quran that people with direct communication with the Prophet, and brother to one of Islams future leaders had no issues with slavery. I never cited a hadith nor sirah...

My comment about hadiths is about my research, I never cited one as proof.



My fault, it should of been 2:178 and 2:177. Fat finger syndrome and not double checking. It takes the concept as an accepted comparison yet fails in the attempt. Slaves are real regardless of the power they may or may not have while the idols are seen as false gods which do not exist at all.



The parable sets the stage that believers are like slaves and Allah is the master. This highlights the type of thinking that slavery is a useful concepts in order to communicate ideas and that
such a dynamic between the two is acceptable. Allah is the master, everything else is the slave. You merely ignore this this dynamic while in reality it is an endorsement of slavery. Read a few Tafsirs on the verses.



Yet the parable fails as many concepts which are considered false Gods do have power over believers. The false doctrine of Jesus as part of the Trinity has power over Christians. Hindu scripture and Gods have power over Hindus, etc. It also provides authority which is not demonstrated any more than idol Gods in my view.

The parable is fallacious as it is a false analogy which is a fallacy.

Look amigo , I do already realize that you have no basic knowledge of Arabic Qur'an nor you know its etiquette to glean its meanings . Your approach is dishonest and hostile - so many other places I discussed the same issue of slavery with the Christians/Jews and they admitted at the end that Qur'an is against slavery and instructed to free them , which you don't see , bad luck . My last point is Qur'an advocated 'Free the Slaves' in an imperative mode , which nailed the whole issue - not a regulation of slavery rather uprooting of slavery .

'Free Palestine' doesn't mean to give liberty to Israel to regulate Palestine , it is uprooting Israel's occupation of Palestine ... sometimes common sense is really uncommon .

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Look amigo , I do already realize that you have no basic knowledge of Arabic Qur'an nor you know its etiquette to glean its meanings . Your approach is dishonest and hostile - so many other places I discussed the same issue of slavery with the Christians/Jews and they admitted at the end that Qur'an is against slavery and instructed to free them , which you don't see , bad luck . My last point is Qur'an advocated 'Free the Slaves' in an imperative mode , which nailed the whole issue - not a regulation of slavery rather uprooting of slavery .

'Free Palestine' doesn't mean to give liberty to Israel to regulate Palestine , it is uprooting Israel's occupation of Palestine ... sometimes common sense is really uncommon .

1. The concept of slavery in Islam, which is fixed at the heart of the teachings of the Koran
And it also proved through evidence and verses from the Koran
2 - correct reading of the Koran to support the theory of slavery in Islam Refer to clear my
3. sex slaves without marriage contract ??
Is one of the important verses in the Koran
( Two, three and four ( intended slaves )
4 - This is the Koran ?
Go and ask who wrote the Koran

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I do not mind a interpretation basis which is not based on literalism. However one can not maintain the text is from God while holding to objective morality is from God. If a view of a concept is one which is acceptable, moral, at a time to unacceptable, immoral, later this creates a situation in which God has subjective morality. Any claims of objective morality is a facade of accepting a certain authority's subjective views on morals rather than objective. God merely becomes a powerful authority but not "the" authority. This has massive implications for other concepts associated with God

My friend
Mohammed is not a head of a tribe
He was the head of the gang and the evolution of the Prophet and Messenger
The Torah is the history of the Jewish people's movement

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

'Free Palestine' doesn't mean to give liberty to Israel to regulate Palestine , it is uprooting Israel's occupation of Palestine ... sometimes common sense is really uncommon .

Palestine was the true origin of the Hebrews sons of Jacob
This is a written history
And you will not be able to change history
Peace in Palestine will be free through the Jewish coexistence with the Palestinian peace

 

[Shad]

Look amigo , I do already realize that you have no basic knowledge of Arabic Qur'an nor you know its etiquette to glean its meanings . Your approach is dishonest and hostile - so many other places I discussed the same issue of slavery with the Christians/Jews and they admitted at the end that Qur'an is against slavery and instructed to free them , which you don't see , bad luck . My last point is Qur'an advocated 'Free the Slaves' in an imperative mode , which nailed the whole issue - not a regulation of slavery rather uprooting of slavery .

'Free Palestine' doesn't mean to give liberty to Israel to regulate Palestine , it is uprooting Israel's occupation of Palestine ... sometimes common sense is really uncommon .

Hah no knowledge. Knowledge such as 30 translations which disagree with you from known and creditable scholars. I have friends that know classical Arabic that have translated it in Arabic and by transliteration. Why should I take a word of an anonymous person on the internet claims seriously when it contradicts scholarship and knowledge of people I trust? You cite other people but provide no evidence these "Jews" and "Christians" know Arabic either They could be gullible for all I know. The fact that there are laws regarding slavery shows this imperative is lacking. History proves you wrong as there is 13 centuries of slavery in Islam. Some imperative you have there. I guess the imperative was so great that tribute in the form of slaves in the treaty I mentioned must be fiction right? A treaty which lasted for 700 years.

Prove your claims. Cited lexicons, cite other sources. Do not merely waffle when someone rejects your claims as having no basis and no proof. Lets see a source, have at it hoss.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
an-Nur 24:33

Amazing a break down of the words which does not include your translations at all. Professional lexicons must be all wrong right? Tafsirs are wrong too I guess. Again I ask for a source for your translation other than your opinion.

You confuse hostile with rejecting baseless claims.

I do not think that the Palestine comment was for me as I never mentioned it.

 

[Shad]

Let had some fun with Union's faulty interpretation. "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (is not) the messenger of Allah, and (is not) the seal of the prophets: and Allah (does not) have full knowledge of all things" 33:40

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Let had some fun with Union's faulty interpretation. "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (is not) the messenger of Allah, and (is not) the seal of the prophets: and Allah (does not) have full knowledge of all things" 33:40

Thank you -
Muslim withdraw from the logical dialogue
When he knows that his interlocutor knows well the dark corridors of the Koran
That is pulled colleague Smart Jaya
But I would have liked him not to withdraw before they say the right word in this dialogue

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

That's called respectful withdrawal and reflecting on one's own words, by the way.

Sorry brother. I'll have to apologize from conversing with you in religion. Please learn the differences between Sunna Islam and Shia Islam and refrain from falsely accusing others with lying (or similar) as a way of debate first then maybe I'll consider further discussions.

That's called respectful withdrawal
Wonderful and beautiful

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

to-Smart_Guy
We are to wait until you provide us with answers to the Senate who follow them to the questions raised by our colleague eKur

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Muslim waiting for days and nights calculated so go to Mecca and kiss the Black Stone
That kiss wiped his sins
\ Attributed his pure white ???
Is this true , O Muslim ??
Kiss the Black Stone was your goal ?
Where is God in the Black Stone ??
Your mind is not working

 

[icehorse]

And, as continues to be the case, we can't seem to find out what exactly Muslims DO stand for. What they value, what they believe...

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

And, as continues to be the case, we can't seem to find out what exactly Muslims DO stand for. What they value, what they believe...

No matter how you try you will not find a Muslim says right
The Muslim closes his mind myths
Muhammad is the Messenger of God
The myth of the Book of Allah
The myth that the Qur'an copy saved plate in the sky
While you are able to know that the teachings of the Koran wrong
Do you think that God gives humanity the teachings wrong ??