As I read the Quran, which parts should I ignore?

[Godobeyer]

Well this dialogue
You say that slaves social system that existed before Islam
But Islam does not reject this social system
The question is
Muslims say that Islam is the last religion ??
And that Islam and Islamic law better than other laws
So why Muhammad was not able to write clear text in the Koran eliminates slavery ??
This is proof that Islam is not of God ???
But he continued to social systems and social traditions were before Muhammad
Mohammed moved to Islam without changing the

at least Islam encourage to eliminate slavery .
just curious question :
you are Christain , did the Chrisitianity eliminates slavery ?
so the you blame Islam because it's "last" religion , don't blame yours ?

 

[gnostic]

at least Islam encourage to eliminate slavery .
just curious question :
you are Christain , did the Chrisitianity eliminates slavery ?
so the you blame Islam because it's "last" religion , don't blame yours ?

Encoruaging people to free slave, doesn't mean that slave owner can't buy another slave next day, or next month, or next year.

The Qur'an doesn't solve the slavey problem, because it doesn't make it "illegal" to trade in slaves or purchasing new slave, or forcing people into slavery through wars or debts.

The Qur'an never encourage people not to stop selling or buying slaves, so it is fact that islam condone slavery.

It wasn't islam or the Qur'an stop slavery in Saudi Arabia, it was the UN and other countries that pressure the nation from making slavery illegal.

 

[Godobeyer]

Encoruaging people to free slave, doesn't mean that slave owner can't buy another slave next day, or next month, or next year.

The Qur'an doesn't solve the slavey problem, because it doesn't make it "illegal" to trade in slaves or purchasing new slave, or forcing people into slavery through wars or debts.

The Qur'an never encourage people not to stop selling or buying slaves, so it is fact that islam condone slavery.

It wasn't islam or the Qur'an stop slavery in Saudi Arabia, it was the UN and other countries that pressure the nation from making slavery illegal.

UN did not stop slavery in Saudi Arabia !!!!
Saudi Arabia had not slavery , but in USA black people were slaves and don't equal to white people rights.

so Why UN did not stopped slavery and racism against black people in USA in that time ?

I forget another main facture of slavery is : racism .


can you list me how many religions encourage people free slaves ?

which religions made slavery as forbiden/ban ?

 

[gnostic]

I was wrong in my last post. Slavery wasn't abolished in Saudi Arabia till 1962; I wrote 1970s.

But the UN did put international pressures on the Saudi to have slavery banned.

so Why UN did not stopped slavery and racism against black people in USA in that time ?

Racism is a different and separate issue.

I don't know where your world history come from.

Slavery was abolished in the US, after the American Civil War (1861-1865).

The United Nations was only established during the 2nd World War, in 1945. How could the UN stop slavery in the US in mid-19th century?

You do know that slavery has been abolished in the 19th century, don't you?

Although, slavery did stop in the US about 150 years ago, racism continued to exist in the 20th century. But you are talking about 2 different issues.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

at least Islam encourage to eliminate slavery .
just curious question :
you are Christain , did the Chrisitianity eliminates slavery ?
so the you blame Islam because it's "last" religion , don't blame yours ?

The texts of the Bible and Christian morality is against slavery
There is firm evidence of the Gospel
But slavery is a social system
Existed before Christianity , but Christianity has rejected this system and was trying to get rid of it
This is also the position of the modern states
But slavery in Islam is fixed through the texts of the Koran and the Sunnah
Muhammad married one of the women
Muhammad did not abolish slavery

 

[serp777]

The texts of the Bible and Christian morality is against slavery
There is firm evidence of the Gospel
But slavery is a social system
Existed before Christianity , but Christianity has rejected this system and was trying to get rid of it
This is also the position of the modern states
But slavery in Islam is fixed through the texts of the Koran and the Sunnah
Muhammad married one of the women
Muhammad did not abolish slavery

No, the bible is not against slavery.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"

" If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)"

And many, many others. On what authority do you claim to appropriately interpret the bible? What gives you the special knowledge that the bible doesn't support slavery? And the Qur'an too for that matter. Muslims enslaved many in Africa using the numerous justifications. You don't know the mind of your God, and you don't tell him his morality. The bible quite clearly advocates for slavery.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

No, the bible is not against slavery.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"

" If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)"

And many, many others. On what authority do you claim to appropriately interpret the bible? What gives you the special knowledge that the bible doesn't support slavery? And the Qur'an too for that matter. Muslims enslaved many in Africa using the numerous justifications. You don't know the mind of your God, and you don't tell him his morality. The bible quite clearly advocates for slavery.

These words found in the Bible( التوراة ) which is called the Old Testament
I ask you to texts from the Bible just because there is a dividing line between Christianity and Judaism
The dividing line between Christianity and Judaism is editing
Human liberation from slavery is one of the conditions of the Christian religion , and there are many texts of the Bible to prove my words, this

 

[Godobeyer]

I was wrong in my last post. Slavery wasn't abolished in Saudi Arabia till 1962; I wrote 1970s.

But the UN did put international pressures on the Saudi to have slavery banned.

Racism is a different and separate issue.

I don't know where your world history come from.

Slavery was abolished in the US, after the American Civil War (1861-1865).

The United Nations was only established during the 2nd World War, in 1945. How could the UN stop slavery in the US in mid-19th century?

You do know that slavery has been abolished in the 19th century, don't you?

Although, slavery did stop in the US about 150 years ago, racism continued to exist in the 20th century. But you are talking about 2 different issues.

I know racism is different than slavery .

I said racism is could be a facture of slavery . (my race is pure/higher , yours is low )

I believe the slavery is still exist in the West different label :strippers .

 

[serp777]

These words found in the Bible( التوراة ) which is called the Old Testament
I ask you to texts from the Bible just because there is a dividing line between Christianity and Judaism
The dividing line between Christianity and Judaism is editing
Human liberation from slavery is one of the conditions of the Christian religion , and there are many texts of the Bible to prove my words, this

The bible includes the old testament, exodus, leviticus, etc. There are many texts of the bible to prove and support slavery. I just gave you some. Who are you to deny those quotes from the bible? On what authority do you claim to interpret and pick and choose from the scriptures? How do you know the mind of God? No one here accepts that you are a prophet who knows the mind of God and perfectly interprets the bible.

Plus the bible is full of contradictions so you can justify nearly any morality by picking and choosing. Human liberation from slavery didn't used to be apart of the Christian faith. Peasant serfs were essentially slaves for all intensive purposes in medieval Europe. Christians enslaved native Americans. Its just your interpretation that the bible is against slavery. Same with the Qur'an. And the muslims heavily enslaved Africa too. The only people they weren't allowed to enslave were other muslims.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The bible includes the old testament, exodus, leviticus, etc. There are many texts of the bible to prove and support slavery. I just gave you some. Who are you to deny those quotes from the bible? On what authority do you claim to interpret and pick and choose from the scriptures? How do you know the mind of God? No one here accepts that you are a prophet who knows the mind of God and perfectly interprets the bible.

Plus the bible is full of contradictions so you can justify nearly any morality by picking and choosing. Human liberation from slavery didn't used to be apart of the Christian faith. Peasant serfs were essentially slaves for all intensive purposes in medieval Europe. Christians enslaved native Americans. Its just your interpretation that the bible is against slavery. Same with the Qur'an. And the muslims heavily enslaved Africa too. The only people they weren't allowed to enslave were other muslims.

Yes Torah where a lot of talk about slaves
This was a social system exists
But Christianity rejected slavery
I told you there are texts of the Bible
I hope that provides texts of the Bible supports the announcement
Christianity is the liberation of man from slavery
Refer to the words of the Gospel
Gospel carries the idea of the first humanitarian Liberation
The idea of abolition of slavery is one of the teachings of the Gospel
Most of those who refused to slavery in America from Christianity to follow
Yes , some Christians are dealing in slaves , but they do not represent Christianity

 

[serp777]

Yes Torah where a lot of talk about slaves
This was a social system exists
But Christianity rejected slavery
I told you there are texts of the Bible
I hope that provides texts of the Bible supports the announcement
Christianity is the liberation of man from slavery
Refer to the words of the Gospel
Gospel carries the idea of the first humanitarian Liberation
The idea of abolition of slavery is one of the teachings of the Gospel
Most of those who refused to slavery in America from Christianity to follow
Yes , some Christians are dealing in slaves , but they do not represent Christianity

Again, on what authority do you claim to interpret the bible correctly, know God's mind and morals, and know to exclude Leviticus, exodus, and the old testament? I gave you quotes from the bible which supports slavery. Show me the commandment that says " you shall not own another human being." Oh wait, there is none.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The bible includes the old testament, exodus, leviticus, etc. There are many texts of the bible to prove and support slavery. I just gave you some. Who are you to deny those quotes from the bible? On what authority do you claim to interpret and pick and choose from the scriptures? How do you know the mind of God? No one here accepts that you are a prophet who knows the mind of God and perfectly interprets the bible.

Plus the bible is full of contradictions so you can justify nearly any morality by picking and choosing. Human liberation from slavery didn't used to be apart of the Christian faith. Peasant serfs were essentially slaves for all intensive purposes in medieval Europe. Christians enslaved native Americans. Its just your interpretation that the bible is against slavery. Same with the Qur'an. And the muslims heavily enslaved Africa too. The only people they weren't allowed to enslave were other muslims.

Slavery in Islam is one of the core teachings of the Koran

 

[serp777]

Slavery in Islam is one of the core teachings of the Koran

And of the bible. You don't have the authority to speak for God or pick and choose morals from the bible. There's no reason to deny leviticus or exodus or the old testament from the bible. I don't support islam either though fyi.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

And of the bible. You don't have the authority to speak for God or pick and choose morals from the bible. There's no reason to deny leviticus or exodus or the old testament from the bible. I don't support islam either though fyi.

Since the time of the Bible did not surf because I understand the spirit of the Gospel
Which it rejects slavery
And down when you want to browse the Gospel
I found the following words
1. Jesus did not exercise this social system which is ideal for Christians
2. Jesus said love is the first commandment
That's the spirit of the Gospel does not believe in slavery
3. In a letter to the Colossians Paul the following words (2 and 3)
Sh not there remains a Jew or non-Jew nor circumcised or not circumcised or not Aagami Burberry nor slave or free
But Christ is all about)
I hope you are reading this message
4. Paul the Apostle asked Emancipation
Read the (3 and 4) of the same message
(Paul the Apostle says (Dear Sirs Abedkm treated fairly and equally, knowing that while you are Lord in Heaven)
These texts of the Bible supports rejecting the Christian attitude to slavery
Because the first commandment is to love Christ
It is known love hated slavery
This is a brief pink you
But Islam is very different
He believed in slavery approach to those who believe in him

 

[Augustus]

it's not about society , it's about religion , Islam discourage the slaverity.


really , do you believe whatever your read in Internet ?
i believe this is wikipedia Muhammad (pbuh) story , NOT from credibale Islamic source .

"He decided that all the able-bodied male persons belonging to the tribe should be killed, women and children taken prisoners and their wealth divided among the Muslim fighters. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) accepted his judgement saying that Sa‘d had adjudged by the Command of Allâh. In fact, the Jews deserved that severe punitive action for the ugly treachery they had harboured against Islam, and the large arsenal they have amassed and which consisted of one thousand and five hundred swords, two thousand spears, three hundred armours and five hundred shields, all of which went into the hands of the Muslims. Trenches were dug in the bazaar of Madinah and a number of Jews between six and seven hundred were beheaded therein. Hot beds of intrigue and treachery were thus exterminated once and for all. "

From The Sealed Nectar by Safiur Rahman Mubarakpuri

"The Prophet divided the properties, women, and children of Banu Qurayzah among the Muslims after he had separated one-fifth for public purposes. Each man of the cavalry received two shares, one for himself and one for his horse. On that day, the Muslim force included thirty-six cavalrymen. Sa'd ibn Zayd al Ansari sent a number of Banu Qurayzah captives to Najd where he exchanged them for horses and armour in order to increase Muslim military power.

Rayhanah, a captive woman of Banu Qurayzah, fell to the share of Muhammad, who offered her Islam. But she refused obstinately. Muhammad even offered to marry her, but she preferred to remain his captive. It was her strong attachment to her religion and people which must have prevented her from joining Islam as well as from marrying the Prophet. Her hatred for the Muslims and for their Prophet must have continued. No one had spoken of her beauty as they spoke of Zaynab, daughter of Jahsh, though a slight mention of this could be found in the chronicles. There was some disagreement as to whether she, upon entering the quarters of the Prophet, was asked to wear a veil as the protocol of the Prophet's house demanded, or whether she remained like most other women of the Peninsula without a veil. One thing, however, is certain: namely, she remained in the quarters of Muhammad until her death. "

From The life of Muhammed by MH Haykal

 

[Godobeyer]

"He decided that all the able-bodied male persons belonging to the tribe should be killed, women and children taken prisoners and their wealth divided among the Muslim fighters. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) accepted his judgement saying that Sa‘d had adjudged by the Command of Allâh. In fact, the Jews deserved that severe punitive action for the ugly treachery they had harboured against Islam, and the large arsenal they have amassed and which consisted of one thousand and five hundred swords, two thousand spears, three hundred armours and five hundred shields, all of which went into the hands of the Muslims. Trenches were dug in the bazaar of Madinah and a number of Jews between six and seven hundred were beheaded therein. Hot beds of intrigue and treachery were thus exterminated once and for all. "

From The Sealed Nectar by Safiur Rahman Mubarakpuri

"The Prophet divided the properties, women, and children of Banu Qurayzah among the Muslims after he had separated one-fifth for public purposes. Each man of the cavalry received two shares, one for himself and one for his horse. On that day, the Muslim force included thirty-six cavalrymen. Sa'd ibn Zayd al Ansari sent a number of Banu Qurayzah captives to Najd where he exchanged them for horses and armour in order to increase Muslim military power.

Rayhanah, a captive woman of Banu Qurayzah, fell to the share of Muhammad, who offered her Islam. But she refused obstinately. Muhammad even offered to marry her, but she preferred to remain his captive. It was her strong attachment to her religion and people which must have prevented her from joining Islam as well as from marrying the Prophet. Her hatred for the Muslims and for their Prophet must have continued. No one had spoken of her beauty as they spoke of Zaynab, daughter of Jahsh, though a slight mention of this could be found in the chronicles. There was some disagreement as to whether she, upon entering the quarters of the Prophet, was asked to wear a veil as the protocol of the Prophet's house demanded, or whether she remained like most other women of the Peninsula without a veil. One thing, however, is certain: namely, she remained in the quarters of Muhammad until her death. "

From The life of Muhammed by MH Haykal

So which anti-Islam website this story ?

 

[Augustus]

So which anti-Islam website this story ?

I quoted the sources.

One is the biography of Muhammed called 'The sealed nectar'

"The Arabic version was awarded first prize by the Muslim World League, at the first Islamic Conference on Seerah, following an open competition for a book on the life of Muhammad in 1979.[1] The book competed with 170 other entries."

Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The second was from 'The life of the Muhammed' by MH Haykal

Muhammad Husayn Haykal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They were simple quotes, with no added commentary, from texts which I own. Why do you assume they are from anti-Islam websites?

 

[Godobeyer]

I quoted the sources.

One is the biography of Muhammed called 'The sealed nectar'

"The Arabic version was awarded first prize by the Muslim World League, at the first Islamic Conference on Seerah, following an open competition for a book on the life of Muhammad in 1979.[1] The book competed with 170 other entries."

Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The second was from 'The life of the Muhammed' by MH Haykal

Muhammad Husayn Haykal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They were simple quotes, with no added commentary, from texts which I own. Why do you assume they are from anti-Islam websites?

Wikipedia is not credibal source for me .

so I stopped using it for long time ago .(especially in religious and politic issues) .

 

[Augustus]

Wikipedia is not credibal source for me .

so I stopped using it for long time ago .(especially in religious and politic issues) .

The quotes are from the BOOKS, both biographies of Muhammed written by MUSLIMS.

The wikipedia entries do not have the quotes, the 1st one is about the book 'the sealed nectar', which demonstrates it won 1st prize at a Sirah competion.

The 2nd is about who MH Haykal is.

I just quoted them to show you they are not from anti-Islam websites.

If you want to disagree with the quotes, no problem, just explain why. But you can't say they are anti-Islam as they were written by Muslims. Go google them, I didn't invent the sources.

 

[Godobeyer]

The quotes are from the BOOKS, both biographies of Muhammed written by MUSLIMS.

The wikipedia entries do not have the quotes, the 1st one is about the book 'the sealed nectar', which demonstrates it won 1st prize at a Sirah competion.

The 2nd is about who MH Haykal is.

I just quoted them to show you they are not from anti-Islam websites.

If you want to disagree with the quotes, no problem, just explain why. But you can't say they are anti-Islam as they were written by Muslims. Go google them, I didn't invent the sources.

sorry i don't trust Wikipedia .