As I read the Quran, which parts should I ignore?

[icehorse]

Those who say Ignore these verses are infact saying ignore the words of Allah. Had it not been for their ignorance their sayings would be the sayings of disbelief/kufr.
Because u cant ignore verses. But u need the correct understanding and context in which these were revealed.

I see it as Time, Situation and Context in which the verses were revealed.
While some verses are timeless such as "do not take christians and jews for protectors, they are protectors of one another". This verse is truth. Look at today's situation. Christian world and Israel are protectors of one another.

Hi SotO,

Well your explanation seems more reasonable than what I usually hear. But as I just wrote above, since the beginning of Islam, and right up to today, hundreds of millions of Muslims disagree with you, and take away many of the same ideas I mentioned above.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Hi SotO,

Well your explanation seems more reasonable than what I usually hear. But as I just wrote above, since the beginning of Islam, and right up to today, hundreds of millions of Muslims disagree with you, and take away many of the same ideas I mentioned above.

No one is disagreeing that there has always been muslims who interpret quran wrong.
Such muslims killed large scale of sahaba, like Uthman r.a and Ali r.a.

What we do is to fight them off by showing these deviant groups the correct understanding of quran and islam.
It doesnt mean we should become apologists for non-muslims, saying: "oh the war verses should be read in metaphors! Or take it easy, these verses are not binding on us".

So the believers are those who follow middlepath. They are not apologists and neither extremists.


For instance apologists will say about surah fatiha ending: no group/religion is mentioned!
But the scholars and the explainers of the Quran have great evidences that the verses is revealed about Jews and Christians. Then there is other example. They say jews, christians shall enter paradise as Allah mentioned that. The believers from the middle path counters: yes they will enter paradise, these are jews & christians before the coming of prophet Muhammad pbuh. Quran mentions clearly if someone hears about the messenger without distortion(lies from bigots, or extreme groups like isis) and that person rejects islam until death, he/she will be from the people of left(meaning, hellfire).

Evidence:
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]



Remember, this is about people that do know what Islam really means. The message of prophet Muhammad pbuh knows. Iam not talking about christians and jews who never heard about islam, those(I suppose good people, not killers and other criminals, Allah knows best) who live in remote areas. Those ones will be tested in hereafter. Because Allah swt says: We never punish until we sent a messenger.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

No one is disagreeing that there has always been muslims who interpret quran wrong.
Such muslims killed large scale of sahaba, like Uthman r.a and Ali r.a.

What we do is to fight them off by showing these deviant groups the correct understanding of quran and islam.
It doesnt mean we should become apologists for non-muslims, saying: "oh the war verses should be read in metaphors! Or take it easy, these verses are not binding on us".
We do not interpret the Koran ?
Quran explains itself ??
The first Quran School of terrorism in the world ??
The teachings of Islam are that produces terrorists in the world ??
Is there in the teachings of the Koran the word humane love ??
All the teachings of the Koran are fighting , killing and spoils ??
And the life of Muhammad and sexual relations with his wives ??
Suspicion of his wife Aisha ??
And descended state fabrication ??
Wife craved his adopted son came down verse for marrying them ??
Jewish coveted slain wife ??
Verse came down so special ? J
Quoting the words of the tolerance in Mecca Covenant
But annulled by all states in Medina ??
So the believers are those who follow middlepath. They are not apologists and neither extremists.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

We do not interpret the Koran ?
Quran explains itself ??
The first Quran School of terrorism in the world ??
The teachings of Islam are that produces terrorists in the world ??
Is there in the teachings of the Koran the word humane love ??
All the teachings of the Koran are fighting , killing and spoils ??
And the life of Muhammad and sexual relations with his wives ??
Suspicion of his wife Aisha ??
And descended state fabrication ??
Wife craved his adopted son came down verse for marrying them ??
Jewish coveted slain wife ??
Verse came down so special ? J
Quoting the words of the tolerance in Mecca Covenant
But annulled by all states in Medina ??

 

[icehorse]

Hi SotO,

I think I hear you saying that you have the correct interpretation. For the sake of discussion, let's say that I agree. Can you tell me how you came to understand the Quran correctly? And then back to the OP, based on your correct interpretation, can you tell me which of the messages I listed in the OP we should feel free to ignore?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Who wants to understand Islam, he must know the difference between the Meccan verses and verses Medina ? J
Medina states are states of Mecca Cancel all ? J
There is a contradiction between verses ??
The Koran was announced and said (and copy the state or from Nnasseha Nati fine them or like )
Copying and cancellation ???
State of the fighting in the Holy canceled and copied more than a hundred a sign of Mecca ??

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

We do not interpret the Koran ?
Quran explains itself ??
The first Quran School of terrorism in the world ??
The teachings of Islam are that produces terrorists in the world ??
Is there in the teachings of the Koran the word humane love ??
All the teachings of the Koran are fighting , killing and spoils ??
And the life of Muhammad and sexual relations with his wives ??
Suspicion of his wife Aisha ??
And descended state fabrication ??
Wife craved his adopted son came down verse for marrying them ??
Jewish coveted slain wife ??
Verse came down so special ? J
Quoting the words of the tolerance in Mecca Covenant
But annulled by all states in Medina ??

I have hard time understanding what u are saying

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I have hard time understanding what u are saying

How state in the Koran speaks of the personal life of Muhammad ??
1. State of ideas
2. The state of his marriage to Zainab girl colt ??
3. State practice sex with Maria Coptic ?
All of these verses
God does not have the job or work ???
Is only instructs Muhammad and allows him worldly desires ??????
Dear Muslim thought ???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Copies of the Koran in ???
There are copies of another kind ?
Copying is to cancel the process ??
And copy the state of Nati fine or forget them or like her ???
Verses revealed in Medina copy and cancel verses revealed in Mecca ??
Dear Muslim thought in your faith ???
Almighty God ??
Cancels his words ??
And will replace in a few period of time ??
Any god of this ??
Forget and eliminates the words ??
Dear Muslim thought ???

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

IceHorse,
The Jihad verses divided muslims in Moderates and Extremists.
Moderates say the jihad verses are applied only during at war, when the muslims are attacked. So in the case of Afghanistan, Palestine, Chechnia , Kashmir, and even Eastern Turkmenistan(China) the verses are allowed to be applied. Only if the mujahideen(those who practice war jihad) do not kill civilians. Sadly such killings do take place and it goes against Jihad rules.

As for Extremists, they say the verses must be applied everytime in peace and war time. In their new video Flames of War SIS said: we will come to America, if the american army dont come to fight us.

 

[FearGod]

I'd like to gain a basic understanding of Islam. I'm not thinking of signing up anytime soon, but it's worth understanding. I've been at it for a couple of years now and I've found it to be hard to pin down. I'm often told that I'm "misinterpreting" parts, or that I lack historical perspective or this or that...

So here are some ideas I found in the Quran, and my guess is that I'll be told I should ignore them, that they are not part of the "true Islam", even though we see many Muslims in the world pursuing these ideas:

- 1:7 - Allah is forever angry with Christians and Jews
- 2:106 - Some verses can be abrogated (replaced), by later verses.
- 2:178 - Slavery is ok.
- 2:193 - Fight non-believers until there are no non-believers.
- 2:216 - Participate in violent Jihad even if you don't want to.
- 2:223 - Have sex with your wife whenever YOU want to.
- 3:118 - 3:120 - Non-believers are not to be trusted - in many ways
- 3:157 - Dying as a martyr is a great idea.
- 4:89 - Kill apostates
- 5:45 - Eye for an eye, life for a life
- 5:57 - Don't criticize religion
- 6:60 - You can be guilty of thought crimes
- 7:166 - Think of Jews as monkeys
- 8:73 - Create a caliphate
- 9:1 - Break treaties with non-believers
- 9:29 - Fight and subdue non-believers, have them pay the jizyah
- 13:41 - Keep taking the lands of the non-believers
- 23: 6 - Wives and slaves are possessions
- 24:8 - Ways for wives to avoid stoning
- 24:60 - Old women shouldn't expect to get married
- 25:53 - Fresh water and salt water don't mix
- 29:28 - Sodomy is the worst sin
- 31:6 - Music and singing are discouraged
- 47:35 - Don't ask for peace if you have the upper hand
- 57:10 - Conquerers get the best reward
- 68:9 - Non-believers will hope for compromise - don't compromise with them
- 86:13 - Laws are in the Quran

For most of these verses that I mentioned, there are many similar verses to support them, so it's not just about misunderstanding single verses, these messages are "oft repeated".

If I were to think that Muslims believed in the messages in the Quran, this list would be quite alarming. But we're told over and over that Islam is a religion of peace.

Perhaps you see my dilemma here... What do Muslims value and believe?

note: sorry, got the first reference wrong, updated 1:1 to be 1:7

For you the quran is useless, so i advice you to ignore all of its verses.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

No, my friend ---
This talk is not true ??
Because the Quranic verse ( Fight those who do not believe in God, the last of the Jews and the Christians and the day until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued )
This is a matter of combat in the Koran ?
He Offensive education and not teach defensive ??
As you think ??
Even if the infidels to Aiqatloncm ??
You you go to them ??
And you reveal war on them ??
This is the teaching of the Koran ?
Here's this Mohammadi talk ??
Ordered to fight the people until they say that God but Allah, and Muhammad ( the Messenger of Allah ??? )
Are Christians in Mosul fought Muslims ???
But Muslims fight them and expelled them ???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

For you the quran is useless, so i advice you to ignore all of its verses.

You are free ???
Here debate and dialogue ???
But send you the following verse from the Koran ( and you, and normal result ???? )
This invitation card you ??
Enjoy the visit ???
You are free ???

 

[Thana]

Hi Thana,

If the context was that we should take the Quran within a specific historical context, your argument would have some merit. But you must recall that the Quran is steadfastly referred to as the perfect, final, unalterable word of Allah. According to Muslims, it's not bound to the time or culture when it was created.

Perhaps you didn't read the OP carefully?

That... doesn't sound true at all. If it were Muslims would still keep slaves, no?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I disagree. I should be able to read it and understand it on my own..

"The wolf attacks the lone sheep"

You will understand what you wish to understand. First of all, you need to erase ALL preconceptions .. it's not just the brain that will help you to understand .. the heart is even more important.

Quoting a list of verses out of context is immature .. you should know better!

 

[Union]

- 1:7 - Allah is forever angry with Christians and Jews.
===> The verse doesn't say that . It is wrong interpretation .
- 2:106 - Some verses can be abrogated (replaced), by later verses.
===> No . The verse says that the verses of Qur'an abrogated the previous scriptures and laws or maintained some of these .
- 2:178 - Slavery is ok.
===> Nothing there about slavery.
- 2:193 - Fight non-believers until there are no non-believers.
===> This verse is about aggression and oppression.
- 2:216 - Participate in violent Jihad even if you don't want to.
===> This verse connected with verse 2.217 and prescribed to fight against the oppressors and whoever spreads chaos .
- 2:223 - Have sex with your wife whenever YOU want to.
===> Doesn't say anything that .
- 3:118 - 3:120 - Non-believers are not to be trusted - in many ways
===> Verse 3.118 talking about the people who hate you and harm t you and would like to see you suffer . Should you trust them?

To be Cont....(Need to go )

 

[Jumi]

It doesnt mean we should become apologists for non-muslims, saying: "oh the war verses should be read in metaphors! Or take it easy, these verses are not binding on us".

Yes it's always best to be honest even if it won't make everyone happy. You know we outsiders always have questions, it's good to see many sides of the puzzle. Although I like DawudTalut's version better, yours is also appreciated.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Yes it's always best to be honest even if it won't make everyone happy. You know we outsiders always have questions, it's good to see many sides of the puzzle. Although I like DawudTalut's version better, yours is also appreciated.

I respect DawutTalut's way of belief. But i dont agree with it.

Because whats the point of Prophet Muhammad's arrival pbuh, if christians, jews can go to paradise even after hearing about islam and rejecting it.


Or whats the point of hellfire if people have their own interpretation of islam wherein they believe all humans go to paradise.


"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision."
Quran [33:36]


Allah knows best.

 

[Union]

- 3:157 - Dying as a martyr is a great idea.
===> This should be read in conjunction with verse 3.156 which is related to a battle . It is always better to be a hero though you die rather being a coward and escape from the battle .
- 4:89 - Kill apostates
===> This verse is talking about those apostates who wants to kill Muslims . Please read in conjunction with verse 4.90. If peace treaty is made then there will be no fight though somebody turns to an apostate .
- 5:45 - Eye for an eye, life for a life
===> This is a reference from Torah , read verse 5.44 . Verse 5.45 is read ' We decreed for them (Jews) in that (Torah)....
- 5:57 - Don't criticize religion
===> 5.57 is talking about a group who do many other unacceptable acts and do not value freedom of religion for Muslims :
>Mocking and ridiculing the Muslim prayers .5.58
>Doing conspiracy against believing people 5.61
>Committing evil , transgression and eating others' money illicitly . 5.62
- 6:60 - You can be guilty of thought crimes
===> Nothing found like that.
- 7:166 - Think of Jews as monkeys
===> Not all Jews but those who drew wrath of Almighty GOD by their disobedience .
- 8:73 - Create a caliphate.
===> Keeping the commandments of the Book of GOD , what Caliphate ?

To be cont...

 

[Union]

- 9:1 - Break treaties with non-believers
===>Rather opposite :
[9:4] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.
- 9:29 - Fight and subdue non-believers, have them pay the jizyah
===> This is for the non-believers who are already engaged in fight - not applicable for peaceful civilians .
- 13:41 - Keep taking the lands of the non-believers
===>Nothing mentioned like that there .
- 23: 6 - Wives and slaves are possessions
===> 'or' and not 'and' , secondly it all about post-marriage relation of intimacy .
- 24:8 - Ways for wives to avoid stoning
===> No stoning in Qur'an , hence the statement is redundant by itself .
- 24:60 - Old women shouldn't expect to get married
===> Rather other way round : its up to the sole decision of older women who don't want to marry ...
- 25:53 - Fresh water and salt water don't mix
===>Geographical miracle : Cape of Good hope , Cape Town , South Africa . I have been there couple of years back .
- 29:28 - Sodomy is the worst sin
===> Very True !!
- 31:6 - Music and singing are discouraged
===> Nothing about singing and Music rather talking about man made fabricated Hadith that Shia and Sunni Muslim adhered to .
- 47:35 - Don't ask for peace if you have the upper hand
===> To me the right translation is :
[047:035] So, do not become lax. Continue to call towards Islam. You will be the winner! Allah will not diminish the worth of your deeds!
- 57:10 - Conquerers get the best reward
===> Nothing like that in the verse .
- 68:9 - Non-believers will hope for compromise - don't compromise with them.
===> This verse addresses the Kadhibin ( Liars) 68.8 , not Non-believes . On the top they have these bad qualities , then why should compromise ?

[068:008] Therefor obey not thou the rejecters
[068:009] Who would have had thee compromise, that they may compromise.[068:010] Neither obey thou each feeble oath-monger,[068:011] Detracter, spreader abroad of slanders,[068:012] Hinderer of the good, transgressor, malefactor[068:013] Greedy therewithal, intrusive.- 86:13 - Laws are in the Quran
===> There is nothing like in that verse .