• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

As I read the Quran, which parts should I ignore?

I'd like to gain a basic understanding of Islam. I'm not thinking of signing up anytime soon, but it's worth understanding. I've been at it for a couple of years now and I've found it to be hard to pin down. I'm often told that I'm "misinterpreting" parts, or that I lack historical perspective or this or that...

If I may be allowed a moment of snark No, you should ignore these parts, instead:

Hast thou observed him who belieth religion? That is he who repelleth the orphan, and urgeth not the feeding of the needy. Ah, woe unto worshippers who are heedless of their prayer; who would be seen (at worship) yet refuse small kindnesses! — Qur’an, Surih 107:1-7

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). -- Quran, Surih 49:13

O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do. — Surih 5:9

Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans—whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right—surely their reward is with their Lord and there shall be no fear come upon them, neither shall they grieve. — Quran, Surih 2:62

This is the way of thy Lord, leading straight: We have detailed the signs for those who receive admonition. For them will be a home of peace in the presence of their Lord: He will be their friend, because they practiced (righteousness). -- Quran, Surih 6:126-127

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand- hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things. -- Quran, Surih 2:256

“It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.” (Surih 2:177 )

Seriously. Don't ignore any of it. Rather, read it with an awareness of its historical context AND a real grasp of what certain words (infidel, for example) mean in that context. I recommend a print copy of Pickthall's translation of the Qur'an because he takes time to set the historical context of each surih, as well as giving a history of the faith of Muhammad in the introduction.

Part of the context in which the verses about war and fighting included the fact that the "pagan" tribes and the Jewish community at Yatthrib were trying to annihilate the nascent Muslim community, The Jews had at first been allies of the Muslims, but betrayed them and attempted to assassinate the Prophet. Amid all of the verses you'll see cited about fighting the infidel (literally, "unfaithful" indicating betrayal) you might miss this one quoted in its entirety:

“Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.” — Quran, Surih 2:190-193

This, from an historical perspective, is far more civilized than the type of warfare being practiced by the groups the Muslims were fighting (or later Christian crusaders), in which the mandate was to wipe out the enemy utterly—men, women and children. Muhammad also raised the station of women from that of chattel to human beings equal with men in the eyes of God. He repeatedly calls upon men to "revere" women and speaks of them in the same breath repeatedly. When He gives His teachings on modesty, it is the men he speaks to first.

Those are some of the things you'll find in the Qur'an. What you will not find is anything about women being evil, or genital mutilation, or honor killings. Those are all ancient tribal practices that predate Islam. You will not read that women were veiled because of weakness, wrongness or evil on their part, but because they were being harassed in public by non-Muslim men. You'll find those references as you read through the Qur'an—if indeed, you do read it.
 

Faybull

Well-Known Member
Perhaps, but according to the OP, there are some misinterpretations that exist.
Which is to say the same thing that a suicide bomber listens to.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Hi Maya,

Snark noted. Just FYI, the list at the beginning of this thread comes from the pages and pages of summary notes I made as I was reading the book.

As I hinted at earlier in this thread, if the Quran was presented as an historically important work I would have no quarrels with it. But as you well know, that's not at all how Muslims represent this book. We're told that the Quran is the perfect, unalterable, final, timeless word of Allah. It's those claims that I have trouble with. And so I don't buy claims that we must read this book from the correct historical context. Nor do I buy the claim that it must be read in the original Arabic. Nor do I buy the claim that I have to open my heart to read it, or the claim that I must have Islamic scholars interpret it for me.

I would accept all of those claims if the Quran was presented as an historically important book. But if it's perfect and timeless, then all of those claims are nonsense. People making those claims are playing tennis without a net.

If it's perfect and timeless, then it's Allah's intention that I take the meaning from it that I do. And it's Allah's intention that ISIS and Boko Haram and their ilk take the meanings from it that they do. And history shows us that it's so easy for humans to take violent, intolerant, misogynistic, homophobic, anti-semetic ideas from the book. So it's clear to me that this book cannot be the basis of a peaceful religion.

Hence the OP - where DO Muslims get their beliefs and values?
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to
Maya Kaath New Member
If I may be allowed a moment of snark No, you should ignore these parts, instead:

Hast thou observed him who belieth religion? That is he who repelleth the orphan, and urgeth not the feeding of the needy. Ah, woe unto worshippers who are heedless of their prayer; who would be seen (at worship) yet refuse small kindnesses! — Qur’an, Surih 107:1-7
1-This Surah Makiya ---
And the name of the sura is Ma'un ??
The word is not a word Ma'un Arab ??
Is the Persian word ??
It is proof that the words of the Koran is not an Arab ??
This contrasts with the announcement of the Koran ( and sent down the Arab world that you understand ???
They do not carry any clear teaching
Sura Announces anger on those who are prevented Ma'un ???
And woe to the worshipers ???
I do not know any words that Muhammad wanted to say in this short sura J ???
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to
Maya Kaath New Member
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). -- Quran, Surih 49:13
This verse also Makiya ??
And I want to ask you ??
Do not you know these meanings humanity before Muhammad ???
Roman civilization and the Persians , Assyrians , Jews and Christians all these ??? do not know is that the human male and female ??
I waited until Muhammad announce them this knowledge ?
This year the words he knew shepherd in the desert ?
That is why this is not a new a learning ??
Is the transfer of knowledge that he knew Muhammad ??
The verse, in which a contradiction ( that blessé )
I am a Christian and I have the fear of God ??
Is Chmlna this verse ??
It's only private Muslims ??
Because we are in the eyes of the Koran Kfar not deserve the generosity of God whatever we do in our lives better
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to
Maya Kaath New Member
O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do. — Surih 5:9
This verse from Surah
It is only the word of the year and particularly Muslims ??
Every military commander says these words to his followers ?
Not interpreted this verse new words ?
Is it righteous to take the spoils of the war ???
So is the contradiction of the Koran clearly
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to
Maya Kaath New Member
Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans—whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right—surely their reward is with their Lord and there shall be no fear come upon them, neither shall they grieve. — Quran, Surih 2:62
This verse Makiya
It was canceled in full
After that came the verse that says ( and Fight those who do not believe in the God of the Jews and Christians until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued ???
Here apparent contradiction between the verses of the Koran ?
In Mecca announce a peaceful position with them
In the city, the overall declares war on them ??
Why this contradiction ?
For your information verse of Medina cancel verse from Mecca ??
You know copyist and copied in the Koran J ??
 

Union

Well-Known Member
This is a key idea to me (the bolded sentence). I've often suspected that this was largely true. If so, then we can't make much progress in understanding Islamic values by reading the Quran. In that case, how can we come to understand Islamic values?

Hello Icehorse . Qur'an has nothing to do with traditional Islamic values ( at least what Sunni and Shia represent ) . As I told you they are driven by their own Hadith books .

To know Quranic Islam , the nearest you have is Islam DIR-Quranist section in RF.

I never come across with a single verse in Qur'an which supports injustice . All the long lists you gave are misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation .

Can you come up with a single solid verse that you think genuine for what Qur'an propagates injustice . A single one , so that we may can discuss . There are dozens of non-Muslim neutral people watching this thread to judge the truth , hence no chance of partiality . Can we do that with one solid verse , please ?

Thanks in advance .
 

Union

Well-Known Member
Brother Mahasn , I do believe that you are a very knowledgeable person but most of your posts are not comprehensible at all so that we can response , Can you do something about that , please ?
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Hello Icehorse . Qur'an has nothing to do with traditional Islamic values ( at least what Sunni and Shia represent ) . As I told you they are driven by their own Hadith books .

To know Quranic Islam , the nearest you have is Islam DIR-Quranist section in RF.

I never come across with a single verse in Qur'an which supports injustice . All the long lists you gave are misunderstanding and/or misinterpretation .

Can you come up with a single solid verse that you think genuine for what Qur'an propagates injustice . A single one , so that we may can discuss . There are dozens of non-Muslim neutral people watching this thread to judge the truth , hence no chance of partiality . Can we do that with one solid verse , please ?

Thanks in advance .
Koran and one book ---
The teachings
If the Koran believes good deeds ??
Is the spoils of the war of good works ??
So here contradiction J ??
Kill the prisoners ??
Is he in favor of education ??
Koran rebukes Muhammad because he did not kill the captives in the battle of Badr ??
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Brother Mahasn , I do believe that you are a very knowledgeable person but most of your posts are not comprehensible at all so that we can response , Can you do something about that , please ?
Thank you ---
Muslim reading the Koran
There are two attitudes in the Holy of Christians and Jews
I say about them ( for Okhov them and grieve for the most important )
The second situation says ( Fight )
Why this contradiction ?
Or the difference ??
Why did God change his words ???
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to
Maya Kaath New Member
This is the way of thy Lord, leading straight: We have detailed the signs for those who receive admonition. For them will be a home of peace in the presence of their Lord: He will be their friend, because they practiced (righteousness). -- Quran, Surih 6:126-127

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand- hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things. -- Quran, Surih 2:256

“It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.” (Surih 2:177 )

Seriously. Don't ignore any of it. Rather, read it with an awareness of its historical context AND a real grasp of what certain words (infidel, for example) mean in that context. I recommend a print copy of Pickthall's translation of the Qur'an because he takes time to set the historical context of each surih, as well as giving a history of the faith of Muhammad in the introduction.
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
No compulsion in religion -
1 - You read a book of revelation ( Suyuti ) and the reason for the revelation of this verse
2. the state , especially in the case of a private ??
3. This verse abrogated by the verse of Medina ( It did not accept Islam is one of the losers will not be acceptable in the last ???)
So there Cancel and copy
There are public and private
4. When we know the provisions of Jihad in Islam ??
We know the meaning of coercion ??
So states Jihad cancel this verse also
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
to
Maya Kaath New Member
Part of the context in which the verses about war and fighting included the fact that the "pagan" tribes and the Jewish community at Yatthrib were trying to annihilate the nascent Muslim community, The Jews had at first been allies of the Muslims, but betrayed them and attempted to assassinate the Prophet. Amid all of the verses you'll see cited about fighting the infidel (literally, "unfaithful" indicating betrayal) you might miss this one quoted in its entirety
This talk is not true ??
Mecca was known God ??
The Arabs are not all pagans ??
Here's the following guide 1. Muhammad's cousin and son named Raakh Nofal this was a priest Nsrenaa
His work is a translation of the Hebrew book into Arabic
This pastor is the son of Khadija also
This pastor was present Alencrani marriage of Khadija Mohammed decrees
So Mecca and the Arabs are not in full pagan ?
They knew religions that surround them ??
1. Sabean ??
Do you know anything about Sabean ??
Why was their name in the Koran ?
Sabean population group in Iraq, which is not known ??
:
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Jews in the Arabian Peninsula lived in Medina and Yathrib
And Yemen
But they did not declare their hostility to Muhammad
Muhammad is the one who declared hostility to them
When he asked them to leave the Jewish religion
And the declaration of acceptance of his letter ??
Jews refused ??
For this series , starting displacement and murder against them ??
This is the reality of events ??
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Those are some of the things you'll find in the Qur'an. What you will not find is anything about women being evil, or genital mutilation, or honor killings. Those are all ancient tribal practices that predate Islam. You will not read that women were veiled because of weakness, wrongness or evil on their part, but because they were being harassed in public by non-Muslim men. You'll find those references as you read through the Qur'an—if indeed, you do read it.
ih--ih ---
Marriage of Aisha Mohammed -
Is it a rejection of the tribal habits ??
Mohammed marriage of his son's wife adoptive ??
It's beat up women ? J
Do you think that Alemraep have legal value in the teachings of Islam ?? J
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
I'd like to gain a basic understanding of Islam.
- 2:106 - Some verses can be abrogated (replaced), by later verses...

Peace be on you.
002-107.png


Translation : [2:107] Whatever Sign We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than that or the like thereof. Dost thou not know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills?


The fourth word from right to left is:
اية = This word and its its plural has been used hundreds of time in Holy Quran in various senses. Generally it is translated as 'Sign'. Discussion and uses in Quran can be found from

pages 46-48 @ https://www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdf


Commentary note 113 @ The Holy Quran


Post # 2 ...... @ Ahmadi view on abrogation | ReligiousForums.com


page 50 @ https://www.alislam.org/topics/reply/2010_spring.pdf



Holy Quran is the complete and perfect Book:
[2:3] This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous.

There is no abrogation in it.
 
Last edited:

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
Well you dont believe in Allah, His Prophets, Angels, Predestination, Hell and Paradise so why should you ignore some parts of Quran? Makes no sense to me at all.
If i were in your shoes(Atheist) i would ignore Quran, Bible and any other religious books.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Peace be on you.
002-107.png


Translation : [2:107] Whatever Sign We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than that or the like thereof. Dost thou not know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills?


The fourth word from right to left is:
اية = This word and its its plural has been used hundreds of time in Holy Quran in various senses. Generally it is translated as 'Sign'. Discussion and uses in Quran can be found from

pages 46-48 @ https://www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdf


Commentary note 113 @ The Holy Quran


Post # 2 ...... @ Ahmadi view on abrogation | ReligiousForums.com


page 50 @ https://www.alislam.org/topics/reply/2010_spring.pdf
Copies mean cancellation ---
Nnasseha mean forgetfulness
And also in the sense ( that make you forget )
The question is ???
Why forget God ??
How forget ???
Why eliminates verses ??
Or copy them ??
Are the words of variable ??
Does God mistakes in these verses ?
Questions mind ??
God does not forget
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Peace be on you.
002-107.png


Translation : [2:107] Whatever Sign We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than that or the like thereof. Dost thou not know that Allah has the power to do all that He wills?


The fourth word from right to left is:
اية = This word and its its plural has been used hundreds of time in Holy Quran in various senses. Generally it is translated as 'Sign'. Discussion and uses in Quran can be found from

pages 46-48 @ https://www.alislam.org/quran/dictionary/dictionary_quran.pdf


Commentary note 113 @ The Holy Quran


Post # 2 ...... @ Ahmadi view on abrogation | ReligiousForums.com


page 50 @ https://www.alislam.org/topics/reply/2010_spring.pdf
Copies mean cancellation ---
Nnasseha mean forgetfulness
And also in the sense ( that make you forget )
The question is ???
Why forget God ??
How forget ???
Why eliminates verses ??
Or copy them ??
Are the words of variable ??
Does God mistakes in these verses ?
Questions mind ??
God does not forget
 
Top