Ask About Islam

[RAYYAN]

If someone believes drinking bleach is healthy, people who also believe it will die.

No one believes something like that. be real
Also, religion (I am talking about my religion) tells us not to harm ourselves.

 

[KWED]

No one believes something like that. be real

But, for example, there are people who believe god doesn't want them to have blood transfusions, which has caused unnecessary deaths. So there are real world situations where religious belief is dangerous.

Also, religion (I am talking about my religion) tells us not to harm ourselves.

But it does tell you to harm other people under certain circumstances (perhaps not you personally, but certainly "Muslim authorities"). And Allah harms billions of people every day.

Also, Ramadan fasting is not a healthy practice. No healthcare professional would ever advise anyone to drink nothing for 12-16 hours, even for a few days, let alone repeatedly. They would be concerned if a patient told them they did that every day for a month. Not eating for similar periods isn't a great idea either.

 

[Sheldon]

KWED said: ↑
"Do what I say or I will punish you" is both a threat and a warning. The two are essentially synonymous in this context.

If it is coming from a man, such as Putin .. yes, it is.
..but if it comes from G-d .. no, it isn't.
It only appears to be like that if you anthromorphise G-d.
i.e. think of G-d as like unto "a man in the sky" etc.

That is nothing more than another special pleading fallacy.

 

[RAYYAN]

But, for example, there are people who believe god doesn't want them to have blood transfusions, which has caused unnecessary deaths. So there are real world situations where religious belief is dangerous.

I agree with you here. After I posted my previous post, I was thinking about this situation. I think those are Mormons or born again!
But, that is not my religion

But it does tell you to harm other people under certain circumstances (perhaps not you personally, but certainly "Muslim authorities"). And Allah harms billions of people every day.

Can I have an example?

Also, Ramadan fasting is not a healthy practice. No healthcare professional would ever advise anyone to drink nothing for 12-16 hours, even for a few days, let alone repeatedly. They would be concerned if a patient told them they did that every day for a month. Not eating for similar periods isn't a great idea either.

First of all, If there is a danger for a person who is fasting, it is a Sin to fast. The person should eat and drink.
Can you also show me where and who says Muslim fasting is not healthy?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

First of all, If there is a danger for a person who is fasting, it is a Sin to fast. The person should eat and drink.
Can you also show me where and who says Muslim fasting is not healthy?

Is there possibly something wrong with the fasting?


Sounds like it is not being done correctly.

Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?

And when ye did eat, and when ye did drink, did not ye eat for yourselves, and drink for yourselves?

Should ye not hear the words which the Lord hath cried by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and in prosperity, and the cities thereof round about her, when men inhabited the south and the plain?

Zechariah 7:5-7




When others were "fasting" Jesus and his disciples were still eating and drinking. Why?



And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not? Mark 2:18

And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.

But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

Mark 2:18-20



Is fasting like a famine?

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
Amos 8:11



Do you then eat the flesh of men, and drink their blood?

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. Leviticus 26:29

Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. Ezekiel 39:18



There are Christians that think they are eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus.


The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. John 65:52-53



It says in the Quran

O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,- 2:183


So I ask you, are you sure the "fasting" is being understood correctly?

 

[WonderingWorrier]

So, you seem to be nitpickin a bit but ok I will TEACH you about ISLAM if you are truly interested.

Allah is the judge. PERIOD. My opinions do not matter when it comes to what is already ordained by Allah and his messenger pbuh.

But, I can have a say in helping others to understand.

There is a difference. There are "People of the Book"

Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book) consist of both believers and disbelievers as indicated in the Quran.
The disbelief of the disbelieving People of the Scripture, that include Jews and Christians, in our times does not expel them from being People of the Scripture.

"O people of the Scripture!: Why do you disbelieve in the verses [about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)] of Allah, while you (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)." Al ‘Imran, 3:70

"Say: O people of the Scripture! Why do you stop those who believe from the path of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, while you (yourselves) are witnesses? And Allah is not unaware of what you do". Al ‘Imran, 3:99

"Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allah during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right and forbid evil and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knows well those who are the pious." Al ‘Imran, 3:113-115

"And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture, those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward from their Lord. Surely, Allah is swift in account." Al ‘Imran, 3:199


The disbelief of the disbelieving People of the Scripture, that include Jews and Christians, in our times does not expel them from being People of the Scripture. So, the rules and regulations related to them regarding permissibility of eating their food and marrying their chaste women, in the Quran and Sunnah, are still applicable to them.

The times when the prophets came, the people at that time, those who believed in them, the true message at that time, like Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, etc., they are considered people of the book who are the true believers as well. They believed in the prophet that was sent at that time. They all believe in the same message that God is One and the only one worthy of worship.


Believing in some prophets and not others is considered disbelief.

You quoted 2 verses back to back and yet the next one that goes with it.
Those who deny Our signs are ˹willfully˺ deaf and dumb—lost in darkness. Allah leaves whoever He wills to stray and guides whoever He wills to the Straight Way. Sura Al-An'am 6:39


As far as all the messengers having clear signs, Allah says in the Quran the truth. Allah commanded each Prophet to take a pledge from his nation that if Muhammad were sent in their time, they would believe in and support him.

And Allah knows best.

Faith is blind.
When the blind lead the blind they all go off the path and fall into the ditch.


The people of the books bear witness to Islam but they dont know it because they dont understand their own messengers.

To understand one messenger is to understand them all.

As it says in the Quran:
And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming what was with them, a party of the people of the Book threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs, as if (it had been something) they did not know! 2:101


There are people that think and say they are the Jews when they are not the Jews. Being a Jew is a judgement.
All Jews go to their promised land. Hell. The land of milk and honey.

And there are Christians that think and say they are sheep when they are not the sheep.
They might be judged as cattle, or they might be judged as goats on the cross.


There is another judgement.
There is a way of peace. The middle level.



Like in the Quran when the mountains turn to dust. Level 3 turns into level 2.

Level1-Level2- Level3
Valley - Hill - Mountain
Straw - Dust - Stubble
Spear - Sword - Bow


As when the sun appears in the west. Level 3 turns into level 2.

Level1 - Level2 - Level3
Moon - Stars - Sun
North - West - East


There is a sword. A sword of peace.


Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34

The sword is peace:

Level1 - Level2- Level3
Spear - Sword - Bow
Straw - Dust - Stubble.


Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.
Isaiah 41:2






Peace is the middle way.

I accept the signs of Muhammad. I listen to his sign language. Peace be upon him.

Salam Shalom

 

[WonderingWorrier]

So just to be clear - you did not initially believe in god but you read the Bible and decided that what it was saying was true, on the basis that is claimed to be true. You understand the circularity of the logic employed but don't see it as a problem.

I was christened as a baby but didnt go to church, or read the bible.
The subject of God and the bible was not spoken of around me.

Ive since had a look at the bible myself and there were coincidences with certain words. I dismissed them but the coincidences kept happening so I started to write them down.

The coincidences became groups of words showing an order and there was intermixing of words within certain groups.

I didnt believe the words because they say they are true. i believe the words because I found them to be true.

I found the words dont mean what they say.
But the sentences mean what they say.
Thats what makes me believe the words are true.

The words are just symbols/signs, and the sentences are speaking in a sign language that makes sense in its own way.

After learning the sign language from the Bible I had a look at the Quran and saw the same sign language being used.

This sign language can be found all over the world within religious and mythical literature.

The sign language of the Zodiac wheel.

Completed Zodiac wheels can also be found around the world.
The Zodiac wheel was known to be "a map of the heavens".

I'm not sure playing connect the dots with stars has anything to do with it.

 

[KWED]

I was christened as a baby but didnt go to church, or read the bible.
The subject of God and the bible was not spoken of around me.

Ive since had a look at the bible myself and there were coincidences with certain words. I dismissed them but the coincidences kept happening so I started to write them down.

The coincidences became groups of words showing an order and there was intermixing of words within certain groups.

I didnt believe the words because they say they are true. i believe the words because I found them to be true.

I found the words dont mean what they say.
But the sentences mean what they say.
Thats what makes me believe the words are true.

The words are just symbols/signs, and the sentences are speaking in a sign language that makes sense in its own way.

After learning the sign language from the Bible I had a look at the Quran and saw the same sign language being used.

This sign language can be found all over the world within religious and mythical literature.

The sign language of the Zodiac wheel.

Completed Zodiac wheels can also be found around the world.
The Zodiac wheel was known to be "a map of the heavens".

I'm not sure playing connect the dots with stars has anything to do with it.

Oh, I get it.
You discovered hidden, magical signs and codes in the Bible and Quran that prove they are true.
Fair enough. Shame that these magical codes and signs are so well hidden that no one else can see them.

 

[joelr]

sure...I believe that is exactly what you do lol

Well first it's making generalizations which you say one should not do? Second find one example of an atheist doing any of these things on this thread?

“no matter what I say to any athiest, they will always label us inferior beings because we don't believe in your beliefs.”

I never mentioned anything remotely close to "inferior", I doubt anyone speaking to you has.

“Athiests do NOT wish to be confronted with truths.”

This is even more false. I was the one to watch the science "proof" video and have been asking for more evidence. You just didn't like the answer because it's supposed to indoctrinate people. On a debate forum it has to actually contain some truthful claims or it gets debunked.
Sounds like what you mean by "truths" atheists don't want to confront is you want to preach scripture and your religious dogma and expect us to be all "wow, please tell me more about how you know so much truth and we don't!"
In the real world things that are true can be demonstrated. This is why no one religion has completely taken over. They have no evidence and are stories made up by people.

"Truth" is not scripture or stories about Gods. Otherwise every religion, ghost story and cult would be truth. You actually have to demonstrate that something is true.

but with athiests, I will not debate...actually why should I. Religion to you is considered ridiculous and you mock at it with sarcasm. You can judge me all you want even in the "debate" category. Doesn't mean I have to with you.

The most judging being done here is from you. By far. You also put words I never said in my mouth every post? I'm not mocking religion. I'm discussing the evidence. The evidence so far deserves to be mocked because they are lies. That entire science video is false propaganda, this was demonstrated to be true. Why would they need to make a false video like that?

You don't have to do anything? But at some point you might want to realize you are on a DEBTAE FORUM?! And not continually play the victim when someone calls you out on something? Although if I believed something to be true I feel like I would have reasons that I could present that would hold up. And if someone showed to me they were false I would definitely question my beliefs because I care about what is true.

If you want to preach there is an Islam discussion forum where debating is not allowed.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The evidence so far deserves to be mocked because they are lies..

An extreme, sweeping statement that is typical of atheists such as yourself.

 

[joelr]

An extreme, sweeping statement that is typical of atheists such as yourself.

It isn't extreme or sweeping. The evidence presented was that the science in the Quran could only be written with divine help. These apologetics said in that video were bold faced lies. OR the presenter actually had no idea that basically all of that science had come from the Greeks.
Another poster then tried to continue to defend the idea by suggesting that the science knowledge from the Greeks didn't reach the Arabs. This was also a lie. It's actually the opposite. It's known that Christians and Romans wrote down all this Greek science and Arab scholars took a great interest in all of the information.

The next piece of evidence was the literary style cannot be duplicated and must be divine. I found some ex-Muslim scholars explaining this is simply not true. The Quran does have a style that would be hard to reproduce but all writings are like that. It would also be hard to reproduce Tolkien or any classic. These are terrible apologetics that seem designed to indoctrinate people who don't really employ critical thinking.

You seem more interested in attacking atheists than defending your faith or providing evidence.

 

[joelr]

Ok, ask, but not sarcastically mock. Intelligent people discuss not criticize and even demean the person who is posting to the point of horribleness. They showed their true colors and they act on a behavior not worthy of dialogue. People do have limits.

So disingenuous. Looking back at this thread you have been hurling accusations at atheists over and over. They won't listen to truth, they act superior and all sorts of inflammatory remarks. Then after a plain discussion on your science "evidence" then I'm accused of criticizing, ridiculing? You start the conversation heated by labeling atheists every chance you get and claiming you know all the truth then one evidence gets debunked and your all "I don't debate atheists".
Well, you seemed pretty sure you did want to discuss evidence over this science video.
Intelligent people discuss not criticize? Cool, then look back on this thread and it's you demeaning atheists post after post. Just for asking questions and saying they don't believe some things are true.
Why would you think the rules you come up with don't apply to you?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No one believes something like that. be real
Also, religion (I am talking about my religion) tells us not to harm ourselves.

You must not live in the US. We’ve lost lots of people to stupidity.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You start the conversation heated by labeling atheists every chance you get and claiming you know all the truth then one evidence gets debunked and your all "I don't debate atheists"

Wouldn’t debate theists either.

 

[Sheldon]

Oh, I get it.
You discovered hidden, magical signs and codes in the Bible and Quran that prove they are true.
Fair enough. Shame that these magical codes and signs are so well hidden that no one else can see them.

...and that they're so esoteric most people can't understand them when they're pointed out.

 

[Sheldon]

An extreme, sweeping statement that is typical of atheists such as yourself.

No true Scotsmen and an ad hominem fallacy in one sentence, kudos. The claim to have objective evidence has turned out to be entirely false, and that's after most theist tap dance and prevaricate around the definition of objective and evidence for ages first, as if it hadn't occurred to them just to post the most compelling piece of evidence they think they have.

Odd really, since many theists claim not to care what atheists think, or accuse atheists of bias, yet get all bent out of shape when atheists offer cogent refutations of their claims to have evidence. If all ideas are challenged relentlessly, and submitted to critical scrutiny, it seems to me sound ideas will be far more likely to remain, while unsound ideas and beliefs will be more likely to fall away.

 

[MyM]

So disingenuous. Looking back at this thread you have been hurling accusations at atheists over and over. They won't listen to truth, they act superior and all sorts of inflammatory remarks. Then after a plain discussion on your science "evidence" then I'm accused of criticizing, ridiculing? You start the conversation heated by labeling atheists every chance you get and claiming you know all the truth then one evidence gets debunked and your all "I don't debate atheists".
Well, you seemed pretty sure you did want to discuss evidence over this science video.
Intelligent people discuss not criticize? Cool, then look back on this thread and it's you demeaning atheists post after post. Just for asking questions and saying they don't believe some things are true.
Why would you think the rules you come up with don't apply to you?

sighs...always the same

 

[joelr]

sighs...always the same

Yes the same, even more attempts to demean atheists rather than discuss facts. Or I call you out on hypocritical and disingenuous behavior and you pretend the problem is with someone else. Or I show that some of your evidence isn't actually as good as you claimed and you pretend like there was no discussion and say I'm ridiculing you. Always the same.

 

[MyM]

Yes the same, even more attempts to demean atheists rather than discuss facts. Or I call you out on hypocritical and disingenuous behavior and you pretend the problem is with someone else. Or I show that some of your evidence isn't actually as good as you claimed and you pretend like there was no discussion and say I'm ridiculing you. Always the same.

 

[joelr]

Then on to wordless replies.....sigh, always the same.
Whomever told you that was a clever move was lying.