Ushta The Truth
You say:
" OK, you think I am playing the victim game? "
Yes, most definitely!
You also say, all of the following :
" Now bring for me in anytime in the history how other religions were tolerant with Muslims when they get the chance to role the country."
That is easy, how about right now?
" Read in history books how independent true historical non-Muslims men wrote about how tolerant were the Muslims with people from other religions."
I have and while there are some who say there was tolerance in some countries, in others ... Well let's ask the Copts in Egypt, the Zoroastrians in Iraq which were wiped out, the Armenians victims of a Turkish Islamic holocaust, the Izadis and Zoroastrians in Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, (present day) Pakistan . Ask the Hindus and Buddhist in the Punjab and Pakistan.
Tell me of the Mercy of Timur the Lame, one of the greatest genocidal maniacs in the history of mankind.
This is not to say others were blameless The Christians have their own chambers of horror, Torquemada, several popes, the Crusaders, the Protestants who hunted down Anabaptists all over Europe , The Sassanian era Zoroastrians killed Mani and force converted Pakistani Bhuddists. However today you do not see Zoroastrians and Christians claiming that they were persecuted into killing or discriminating others.
Moreover today Muslims area killing Christians and pagans in Sudan, Christians in Nigeria , and Christians and Buddhists in the Phillipines and Indonesia. We just witnessed bombing of civilians in London and Spain and riots in France all Muslims. There are no Zoroastrians, Jews, Bahais and Christians rioting in Iran, yet, one of the members of the Revolutionary Grand council (The Moolahs) just claimed that Non -Muslims, were animals. If today one of the members of congress were to say that of Muslims, he would be impeached and prosecuted under the Hate Crimes legislation and there would be riots all over the world by Muslims
My point is that you cannot say , 'in the past we were mistreated so do not bring out Muslim mistreating others today', when:
1 you are no longer mistreated, while you still enforce the discriminatory system of Dhimminitude on others.
2, Dhimminitude was imposed when there were no Muslim minorities under Non-Muslim governments, being persecuted. It was imposed in countries controlled by Muslim armies, after forcefully being conquered
"I think you study that too in schools "Muslims in Spain"."
The Muslims were kicked out of Spain, that is true, in the 15th Century. Today there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims, many illegal immigrants, in Spain who have the protection of the Spanish law and the privileges of Spanish fee society, a protection and a privilege Zoroastrians in Iran and Copts in Egypt not only do not have, but will probably 'kill' for.
But since you are so into history I will point out to you that Muslims invaded Spain to conquer it for Islam. There was no provocation. There was no reason for the invasion other than to conquer for Allah. It took the Spaniards over 750 years to regain their country. At the end, they offered the Muslims the same thing the Muslims offered all those whom they conquered. Convert or leave. In fact in many instances the option that victorious Muslims gave was convert or die.
"You will not understand today how these rules were so fair at that time because you weren't there. "
" Precisely my point! Even if Dhimminitude was for protection, it has not worked and most minorities under it will do away with it and with those provision of Islamic Law that make the Muslim legally superior. Yet no Islamist has spoken to eliminate this institutionalized discrimination. How will you feel if a similar system branding you as second class were to be imposed on all Muslims in Non-muslim countries?
" Therefore, Do you have any evidence that in that time Muslims were treating them badly? Any stories about non-Muslims victims. "
I have treasure troves of stories both from , my Parsi friends in India and my Iranian Zoroastrian friends in Iran, are you sure you want me to post them?
" Most of non-Muslims at that time prefered to be under Muslims rule when they saw how Muslims treat them. "
That statement, is something I will not dignify . Its akin to a Southern slave owner saying that blacks preferred slavery. Moreover today I do not see millions of Christians and others wanting to migrate to Islamic countries. But I do see millions of Muslims wanting to migrate to Non-Muslim countries Let's address today
Ushta te
Ashai
You say:
" OK, you think I am playing the victim game? "
Yes, most definitely!
You also say, all of the following :
" Now bring for me in anytime in the history how other religions were tolerant with Muslims when they get the chance to role the country."
That is easy, how about right now?
" Read in history books how independent true historical non-Muslims men wrote about how tolerant were the Muslims with people from other religions."
I have and while there are some who say there was tolerance in some countries, in others ... Well let's ask the Copts in Egypt, the Zoroastrians in Iraq which were wiped out, the Armenians victims of a Turkish Islamic holocaust, the Izadis and Zoroastrians in Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, (present day) Pakistan . Ask the Hindus and Buddhist in the Punjab and Pakistan.
Tell me of the Mercy of Timur the Lame, one of the greatest genocidal maniacs in the history of mankind.
This is not to say others were blameless The Christians have their own chambers of horror, Torquemada, several popes, the Crusaders, the Protestants who hunted down Anabaptists all over Europe , The Sassanian era Zoroastrians killed Mani and force converted Pakistani Bhuddists. However today you do not see Zoroastrians and Christians claiming that they were persecuted into killing or discriminating others.
Moreover today Muslims area killing Christians and pagans in Sudan, Christians in Nigeria , and Christians and Buddhists in the Phillipines and Indonesia. We just witnessed bombing of civilians in London and Spain and riots in France all Muslims. There are no Zoroastrians, Jews, Bahais and Christians rioting in Iran, yet, one of the members of the Revolutionary Grand council (The Moolahs) just claimed that Non -Muslims, were animals. If today one of the members of congress were to say that of Muslims, he would be impeached and prosecuted under the Hate Crimes legislation and there would be riots all over the world by Muslims
My point is that you cannot say , 'in the past we were mistreated so do not bring out Muslim mistreating others today', when:
1 you are no longer mistreated, while you still enforce the discriminatory system of Dhimminitude on others.
2, Dhimminitude was imposed when there were no Muslim minorities under Non-Muslim governments, being persecuted. It was imposed in countries controlled by Muslim armies, after forcefully being conquered
"I think you study that too in schools "Muslims in Spain"."
The Muslims were kicked out of Spain, that is true, in the 15th Century. Today there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims, many illegal immigrants, in Spain who have the protection of the Spanish law and the privileges of Spanish fee society, a protection and a privilege Zoroastrians in Iran and Copts in Egypt not only do not have, but will probably 'kill' for.
But since you are so into history I will point out to you that Muslims invaded Spain to conquer it for Islam. There was no provocation. There was no reason for the invasion other than to conquer for Allah. It took the Spaniards over 750 years to regain their country. At the end, they offered the Muslims the same thing the Muslims offered all those whom they conquered. Convert or leave. In fact in many instances the option that victorious Muslims gave was convert or die.
"You will not understand today how these rules were so fair at that time because you weren't there. "
" Precisely my point! Even if Dhimminitude was for protection, it has not worked and most minorities under it will do away with it and with those provision of Islamic Law that make the Muslim legally superior. Yet no Islamist has spoken to eliminate this institutionalized discrimination. How will you feel if a similar system branding you as second class were to be imposed on all Muslims in Non-muslim countries?
" Therefore, Do you have any evidence that in that time Muslims were treating them badly? Any stories about non-Muslims victims. "
I have treasure troves of stories both from , my Parsi friends in India and my Iranian Zoroastrian friends in Iran, are you sure you want me to post them?
" Most of non-Muslims at that time prefered to be under Muslims rule when they saw how Muslims treat them. "
That statement, is something I will not dignify . Its akin to a Southern slave owner saying that blacks preferred slavery. Moreover today I do not see millions of Christians and others wanting to migrate to Islamic countries. But I do see millions of Muslims wanting to migrate to Non-Muslim countries Let's address today
Ushta te
Ashai
I guess no one here can help with my question so I will politely back out and look elsewhere. Shabbat Shalom.