Ask me about ancient Egypt

[River Sea]

I found this interesting @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Tamino

The ancients of Khemit viewed conscious existence on Earth as eternal cycles of emergence and growth, retreat and rebirth similar to that of the Vedic Yuga Cycles.

Where Is Horus? Eternally Cycling Ages of Ancient Khemit (Egypt)​

by Patricia Awyan Lehman​

Where is Horus? What ‘Hour’ is it? The ancients of Khemit understood that time is an illusion perceived by movement. And the movements within our perception of time and space dance in fractal and repeating patterns. The sun, moon, planets and stars move in cyclical patterns above to create a blueprint for how we experience reality on Earth. What time is it- we ask? That ‘moment in time’ can be understood within the cyclical hours of every 24 hour day, the days and seasons in every year and the years and seasons within every Great Year of the Precession of the Equinoxes, and so on…
It is the great and eternal breath of our holographic perception of reality. Perceive the patterns without to fully discern what’s happening within. For as it was written…”As above, So below”.
The ancients of Khemit viewed conscious existence on Earth as eternal cycles of emergence and growth, retreat and rebirth similar to that of the Vedic Yuga Cycles.

Vedic Yuga Cycles
Hindu tradition holds that there are four great ages, or Yugas, and within each there is a smaller cycle of cosmic creation and destruction. In this understanding we are currently in Kali Yuga, in which we are most separated from our cosmic truth. Their Golden Age was called Satya Yuga, which referred to our highest stage of conscious perception. In Sanskrit Satya translates as truth. With each continuing age we devolve and move further from our center—our truth. The next age is the Treta Yuga followed by Dwapar Yuga and then Kali. Once rock bottom is reached, we begin to involve again back to our center, our hearts, to feel our connection again and discover the truth of who and how powerful we really are.
At the end of Kali Yuga, it is believed that Lord Shiva will dissolve the cosmos and the material realm will be transformed. Lord Brahma will then recreate the universe, and humankind will strive to become Beings of Truth again.
This understanding was mirrored in ancient Khemit. Their observance of the sun’s daily journey through the sky applied to the eternal process of growth and decline, light and shadow, appearance and withdrawal that they saw occurring over many solar years in the life cycles of individuals, civilizations and with all that exists in the universe.

Can continue to read at

Horus Rising – The Metaphysical adventure begins here

horusrising.com

 

[Tamino]

Manu's twin, Yemo became Ymir in Norse mythology and Yama in Hinduism/Buddhism.

Manu Indus Valley, KMT, and where else? What is a twin, compared to a past story that continues?

I have not heard of Manu's twin nor any corresponding story in Egyptian mythology.

In my opinion, the Egyptian "Land of Manu" is entirely unrelated to the Indian Manu. The similarity in name is by chance.

 

[Tomef]

I'm a Kemetic pagan who discovered the religion while studying Egyptology.
If you want to know anything about current developments in the field of Egyptology, ancient source texts, a specific deity... I may not be able to answer every question, but I can probably look it up or point out the relevant books and papers.
Also, if you just want something translated from or into hieroglyphs: My Middle Egyptian is pretty solid, just don't ask me about participle constructions.

I suppose I could just look this up, but do heiroglyphs predate cuneiform?

 

[Tamino]

Where Is Horus? Eternally Cycling Ages of Ancient Khemit (Egypt)​

by Patricia Awyan Lehman​

Where is Horus? What ‘Hour’ is it?

I would answer this question with another question: is the author equating the god Horus with modern English word "hours" just because it sounds similar??
This is BS, the etymology of Horus from Hr.j, "above", is well established.

The ancients of Khemit understood that time is an illusion perceived by movement.

Oh, really? "Time is an illusion"? I don't know any Egyptian texts implying auch a thing. Sounds more like an Indian concept or a take on Parmenides.

And the movements within our perception of time and space dance in fractal and repeating patterns. The sun, moon, planets and stars move in cyclical patterns above to create a blueprint for how we experience reality on Earth.

Planets and stars as a blueprint for earth? It's the Babylonians who were into that type of Astrology, not the Egyptians.

What time is it- we ask? That ‘moment in time’ can be understood within the cyclical hours of every 24 hour day, the days and seasons in every year and the years and seasons within every Great Year of the Precession of the Equinoxes, and so on…

Egyptians were much aware of cyclical time. But "Precession of equinoxes"? Nope. Egyptians would have been interested in Sothis dates, but I doubt the author of this text even knows what those are.

It is the great and eternal breath of our holographic perception of reality. Perceive the patterns without to fully discern what’s happening within. For as it was written…”As above, So below”.

"As above, so below" is a Hermetic principle. It might be from Egypt, but that's not proven. And if it is, then from the Hellenic period.

The ancients of Khemit viewed conscious existence on Earth as eternal cycles of emergence and growth, retreat and rebirth similar to that of the Vedic Yuga Cycles.

No, they didn't. They viewed MATERIAL existence as eternal cycles and we're far less concerned with transcendence than the author seems to believe.

Ms Patricia Awyan Lehman seems to have some knowledge about Indian concepts of time and spirituality, but she apparently does not know much about Egypt.

 

[Tamino]

I suppose I could just look this up, but do heiroglyphs predate cuneiform?

No. Both systems were developed in roughly the same age around 3000 BCE. But cuneiform is attested a tiny bit earlier, much as it pains me to admit.

 

[River Sea]

I would answer this question with another question: is the author equating the god Horus with modern English word "hours" just because it sounds similar??
This is BS, the etymology of Horus from Hr.j, "above", is well established.

Oh, really? "Time is an illusion"? I don't know any Egyptian texts implying auch a thing. Sounds more like an Indian concept or a take on Parmenides.

Planets and stars as a blueprint for earth? It's the Babylonians who were into that type of Astrology, not the Egyptians.

Egyptians were much aware of cyclical time. But "Precession of equinoxes"? Nope. Egyptians would have been interested in Sothis dates, but I doubt the author of this text even knows what those are.

"As above, so below" is a Hermetic principle. It might be from Egypt, but that's not proven. And if it is, then from the Hellenic period.

No, they didn't. They viewed MATERIAL existence as eternal cycles and we're far less concerned with transcendence than the author seems to believe.

Ms Patricia Awyan Lehman seems to have some knowledge about Indian concepts of time and spirituality, but she apparently does not know much about Egypt.

@Tamino
Is it something to do that no ancient Egyptian needs to know about Yugas, because what are Yugas for? Is it to help communicate what? Do Egyptians find no need to communicate about Yugas then? If there is no need, what type of communication do they think through?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

In a general sense: sure. I mean, the East is a place of creation, since the sun rises in the east and it is thus the place of the (re-)creation of Ra.
But if you are talking about the creation of the cosmos and a specific location of the benben - I don't know if the Book of the Dead describes that, beyond short allusions. Would you know which spell this is supposed to be from?

Agree not related to cosmos. But why should east be a place of creation if it was not geographical?

 

[Frank Goad]

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse This talks about horus and jesus.Want to give feedback?

 

[Tamino]

Agree not related to cosmos. But why should east be a place of creation if it was not geographical?

Because wherever you are on the Earth, the sun always rises east of you, but never where you are.

Plus, the Egyptians were well aware of Mesopotamia: A region East of them, with whom they've been in contact since the pre-Dynastic, whose oldest cities predate their own. Is spite of that fact, they never equate this region with a place of primordial time and creation

 

[Tamino]

10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus - Listverse This talks about horus and jesus.Want to give feedback?

I have a baaaad feeling about this.

Born of a virgin, Isis.

Isis and Osiris are said to be lovers already in their mother's womb. Abstinence is never implied...

Only begotten son of the God Osiris.

Yes. But they're missing the more important point: Horus is the heir to the kingship.

Birth heralded by the star Sirius, the morning star.

No. The Nile flood is heralded by the heliacal rising of Sodpet in the morning. But the flood isn't equated with the birth of Horus?!
Sirius is also connected to Isis, not directly to Horus.
AND the celestial body more often called "morning star" is Venus. Not Sirius.

Ancient Egyptians paraded a manger and child representing Horus through the streets at the time of the winter solstice (about DEC-21).

Never heard of this festival. A source or citation would be nice?!

In reality, he had no birth date; he was not a human.

Yeah, no, the birth date of Horus is in Summer. One of the epagomenal days directly before the above mentioned heliacal rising and beginning of the Nile flood. Though we can argue whether that's Horus the Elder, not Horus, son of Isis... And whether they are separate entities.

Death threat during infancy: Herut tried to have Horus murdered.

Herut? Who is that?? The threat came from Seth.

Handling the threat: The God That tells Horus’ mother “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.”

I am not familiar with the source of this text but the content and syntax are plausible for a translation from an Egyptian hymn.
The child being hidden in the Egyptian marshes is indeed one of the most striking similarities to Jesus.
And with the Isis cult being so popular in the Roman empire, the story of the Holy Family in Egypt might well be a conscious allusion.

Break in life history: No data between ages of 12 & 30.

Egyptian Gods don't have a human biography. None of them has that. They appear as young or as old as fits the mythological circumstances

Age at baptism: 30. Subsequent fate of the baptiser: Beheaded.

Baptism? Horus wasn't baptized. Maybe he got ritually purified for the coronation. But if that type of purification is shown in Art, it's the pharao being purified by Horus and Seth.

The only time Horus goes gets dunked in a river is when he jumps in to duel Seth while both take the form of hippos. (This episode and the following points can all be found in the hilarious "Contendings of Horus and Seth", p. Chester Beatty I, about 1100BC".)
Then Horus comes out of the river and beheads his mother Isis because she showed empathy with his enemy

Walked on water,

No, he builds a boat.

cast out demons,

Nonsense, his father threatens to send demons to earth if his son isn't crowned king

healed the sick, restored sight to the blind.

Nope, Horus is famous for being healed by Isis and his sight restored by Hathor. He's the patient, not the healer.

Was crucifed, descended into Hell; resurrected after three days

Never heard of this story.

 

[River Sea]

@firedragon @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Tamino

Qur'an says "Mathlial Shamsi". Which means "The rising period of the sun". And "Maghribasshamsi" which means the "the setting period of the sun".

The sun cult only gained overarching importance in the 4th dynasty

Nun, oldest of the ancient Egyptian gods and father of Re, the sun god. Nun’s name means “primeval waters,” and he represented the waters of chaos out of which Re-Atum began creation.

"Father of" more in the sense of being his elder. Though the Book of the Celestial Cow does address Nun as Father of Ra.

The cult of the sun god and the tendency to concentrate cultic adoration to the king was already present under the rule of Amenophis III, his father. Akhenaten took those ideas and kind of increased them to an extreme form.

Now the verse is:

The gods are glad [when] they see Ra in his rising; his beams flood the world with light. The majesty of the god, who is to be feared, setteth forth and cometh unto the land of Manu; he maketh bright the earth at his birth each day; he cometh unto the place where he was yesterday.

My rendering: see Ra in his rising; his beams flood the world with light… [He] setteth [htp] forth and cometh unto the land of Manu [mnw]

Your rendering: the sun rises, fills everything with light, proceeds across the sky, and sets [htp] by "joining with the Western hills [mnw]"

Question 1. whether htp means “setting forth” or setting.



I tried working through TLA but could not succeed. Can you tell me the Egyptian words for “setteth forth and cometh.” Plain English would not translate “setting forth” that tells of activity as “setting down” as in the west. Also one does not “cometh” in the west. It would be “goeth.”



Question 2. Whether mnw means Manu or western hills.

On Manu the TLA treats it as a common noun:

Word class: common noun (masc.)

Translation

Westgebirge; Totenreich; Westen west



Whereas the text uses Manu as a proper noun.

I don’t have the capacity to unravel the TLA translations but your interpretation based on the standard TLA is not convincing for me.

You see how we get the idea to associate Bakhu with east and Manu with West, right?

Both appear to be in the east. Ra is the sun, manu receives sunlight. No east or west.

Did you notice how Ra is a child in one, and an old man in the other line? The sun god as an old man is his evening form. When he is in the West.
And how can he illuminate "the two lands" (Egypt) when he is in India???

Direct evidence of Manu with sun rising is stronger, I think.
He does not illuminate Egypt. He illuminates the earth.

It says "tawy" -the two lands. That's literally the most common word with which the Egyptians referred to their own country.
Also, you are still ignoring that the sun god in his form of an "old man" represents the evening sun.
And have you considered my points about the phonetics above? There's absolutely no certainty that the Egyptian word was even pronounced anything close to "mah-noo"

Sun rise Sun set @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Tamino @firedragon ask where?

@Tamino claims KMT
@Bharat Jhunjhunwala claims Indus Valley (modern name India area)
@firedragon had not stated where of yet but placed this sun rise sun set at where? Mathlial Shamsi where? Maghribasshamsi where?

Qur'an says "Mathlial Shamsi". Which means "The rising period of the sun". And "Maghribasshamsi" which means the "the setting period of the sun".

Study about Maghribasshamsi

@firedragon
Maghribasshamsi means the setting period of the sun. Where? Mathlial Shamsi means rising period of the sun, where?

@Tamino we had a productive discussion on .Manu. and punt. Can you please help me retrieve it on this forum? Thankful.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala I just learned from @firedragon Maghribasshamsi means setting of the sun and Mathlial Shamsi means rising of the sun

So Indus Valley has what words for rising setting of sun, compare to KMT @Tamino compare to unknown area from @firedragon

 

[Tamino]

Sun rise Sun set @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Tamino @firedragon ask where

Obviously, the "place" of sunrise and sunset is relative to your position.
Technically, the sun isn't rising and setting at all - the planet is spinning.

For a stationary observer on planet earth, they will observe sunrise east of their position and sunset west of their position.
It's entirely nonsensical to argue about the "true place" of sunset and trying to locate it as a place on earth, as it shifts with the observer's position

 

[firedragon]

Maghribasshamsi means the setting period of the sun. Where? Mathlial Shamsi means rising period of the sun, where?

Very good. Now that you have gone into other people's old comments painstakingly, do you understand what a"period" is?

A period is not a "place" to ask the question "where".

AND, if it was you who was promoting this Bharat person and his book long ago, you should know that East being India was not a thing during Moses's time. It's a new thing promoted during the colonial times. So what you guys are doing is called anachronism. Of course based on a basic lack of historical research and understanding.

And someone to ask "where" a "period" is, is to be so quick to read something and respond that it has not even drowned in your mind.

Let me tell you directly. The "Evening" is a "period", not a place.

Cheers.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Because wherever you are on the Earth, the sun always rises east of you, but never where you are.

Plus, the Egyptians were well aware of Mesopotamia: A region East of them, with whom they've been in contact since the pre-Dynastic, whose oldest cities predate their own. Is spite of that fact, they never equate this region with a place of primordial time and creation

Mesopotamia is northeast of egypt while Indus is east of egypt. The sun does not rise over Mesopotamia if one is in Egypt. Egyptians were in contact with Indus as well.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

East being India was not a thing during Moses's time

Why?

 

[Comradio251]

I'm a Kemetic pagan who discovered the religion while studying Egyptology.
If you want to know anything about current developments in the field of Egyptology, ancient source texts, a specific deity... I may not be able to answer every question, but I can probably look it up or point out the relevant books and papers.
Also, if you just want something translated from or into hieroglyphs: My Middle Egyptian is pretty solid, just don't ask me about participle constructions.

Tell me exactly how they hauled their lime stone bricks across the Nile and up the pyramids. Did they build giant sand mounds to elevate them, perhaps?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Obviously, the "place" of sunrise and sunset is relative to your position.
Technically, the sun isn't rising and setting at all - the planet is spinning.

For a stationary observer on planet earth, they will observe sunrise east of their position and sunset west of their position.
It's entirely nonsensical to argue about the "true place" of sunset and trying to locate it as a place on earth, as it shifts with the observer's position

Yes of course. But this is important from a particular place.

 

[firedragon]

Why?

Ive said it already. Just asking "why" after an explanation is simply dishonest brother. Don't do that/. You as a mature person should be beyond that.

 

[River Sea]

The problem is that we do not know whether the Egypt and Ethiopia of the OT are the present places. All we know is that the geography depicted in the OT does NOT match with them.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala How do people feel about the OT when reading about Egypt and Ethiopia and realizing the geography depicted in the OT does not match? Are they afraid to ask questions, or do they feel free to ask questions?

Torah is not the benchmark for history. Kush is the label and kingdom before ethiopia and the Kush actually took over egypt around 1500 BCE.

@Bthoth
Wow, so Kush took over Ancient Egypt around 1500 BCE. How do you feel about this? What emotions do you have? Can you list your emotions?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Torah is not the benchmark for history. Kush is the label and kingdom before ethiopia and the Kush actually took over egypt around 1500 BCE.

The Torah may not be objective history, but for practical purposes and for building a common understanding between religions, the Torah is an important text, and I accept it as valid for discussion without going into the fact of whether it is objectively valid or not.