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Ask me about ancient Egypt

Tamino

Active Member
I'm a Kemetic pagan who discovered the religion while studying Egyptology.
If you want to know anything about current developments in the field of Egyptology, ancient source texts, a specific deity... I may not be able to answer every question, but I can probably look it up or point out the relevant books and papers.
Also, if you just want something translated from or into hieroglyphs: My Middle Egyptian is pretty solid, just don't ask me about participle constructions.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
It seems to me that the Ancient Egyptians were massively obsessed with death

Is this true? And if so, why?
 

Tamino

Active Member
It seems to me that the Ancient Egyptians were massively obsessed with death

Is this true? And if so, why?
Quite the opposite. They were so obsessed with life that they wanted to keep it forever.
The spiritual function of the elite tombs and funerary cults was to enable the tomb owner to keep their wealth, status and comfortable life even after death.

The more scientific answer, of course, is this: the known and surviving artifacts are massively biased towards funerary goods.

The Egyptians lived their lives in the Nile valley, with most settlements on the elevated banks of the river. The archaeological evidence of these lives is now mostly buried under meters of Nile sediments, rotted in the moist soil, washed away by the shifting riverbed, or hidden under modern cities.
The cemeteries were dug into the cliffs at the desert edge - still accessible, buried only under limited amounts of drifting sand and rubble, and with excellent preservation due to the super dry environment.

Most of what we found and can study today is from a funerary context... so the Egyptians seem death-obsessed to us, because most of the stuff we see and know is from their cemeteries. Our perspective is skewed.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What is the current understanding of the specifics of classic Egyptian afterlife beliefs?

Who would and would not come to live again after death, for instance? Would they return to their previous bodies or receive new ones?

Was it expected that they would resume living on Earth (specifically Egypt, I assume)?

Any noteworthy interactions with other religions?

Culturally, what is known about their view of themselves and their relationship with other communities, particularly the Rome and its colonies?
 

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
This post is to put this thread on my watch list
I am curious if it will be bombarded by ramp questions
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Have you ever read the book Initiation by Elizabeth Haich and if so what do you think about it:?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Anything beyond your previous reply that you might wish people interested in the Egyptian Book of the Dead knew either before or after reading it?
 

Tamino

Active Member
What is the current understanding of the specifics of classic Egyptian afterlife beliefs?
That is impossible to answer without going through an entire shelf of books. Egyptian ideas of the afterlives changed significantly over time, certain regions and social groups also had their own specifics
Who would and would not come to live again after death, for instance?
Even poor people, who could not afford mummification, statues, a full formal ritual, still received burials with at least modest grave goods and small brick niches for offerings. So I think that people hoped for an afterlife even if they didn't have the full force of magical equipment and rituals. Some wisdom texts (Merikare, Ptahhotep) stress the judgement before the gods as the decisive factor, others warn that a well equipped tomb is needed or weep for those whose bodies are lost and cannot receive a burial.
So I believe that the Egyptians themselves would have had some heated debates on the topic, rather than an uniform opinion.

Would they return to their previous bodies or receive new ones?
Both. The Ka and Ba (two of the types of soul) could return to the original body, if it was mummified (a "sAH"). Or they could return to take residence in statues and images of the deceased... but not to live there permanently, mostly to come visit and receive offerings.
Was it expected that they would resume living on Earth (specifically Egypt, I assume)?
No, in the Duat, or in the Beautiful West, the realm of the dead. But it remains ambigous as to where this place is located.
In the Old Kingdom, ideas of the afterlive were still more cosmic and talked about becoming stars and travelling with Ra in the sun barque. In the Middle and New Kingdom it shifted to more Chthonic imaginations of caverns and underground realms.
Any noteworthy interactions with other religions?
They influenced the levantine region in the late Bronze age, as it was pretty much their colony and they had some mines, fortresses and administrative centers there. Interactions with other Bronze age superpowers could be quite diplomatic, (when they weren't currently at war, that is)... for example, sending divine statue that was supposed to have healing properties, to another kingdom.
They also adopted some levantine deities into their pantheon, most notably Ana and Astarte.
A special relationship existed with the southern regions, the Ku****es and Nubians (these terms would need a more precise definition, but that would take some time). Anyway, Egypt colonized and exploited them for quite a long time, but in the Late Period got invaded by them in turn. A thriving Egyptian/Ku****e mixed culture and religion survived in Meroe even after Egypt had fallen to the Greeks.
Culturally, what is known about their view of themselves and their relationship with other communities, particularly the Rome and its colonies?
By the time the Romans became a relevant force, Egypt was already ruled by the Ptolemaic dynasty and integrated into the hellenistic world.
The Egyptians of the Bronze Age had a weird double standard when dealing with foreigners. In their spiritual system, anything outside of Egypt was foreign, chaotic, outside of Ma'at, and therefore needed to be kept out and destroyed. There's tons of ****ty racists pharaonic propaganda about subjugating the "wretched foreigners". But in reality, they were rather pragmatic. They did trade expeditions, had diplomatic relations, travelled, and had foreign colonies (well, not in the way the Romans did it. The Egyptians never tried to establish their culture and administration in foreign lands. It was more about maintaining military control and exploiting resources. )
 

Tamino

Active Member
Anything beyond your previous reply that you might wish people interested in the Egyptian Book of the Dead knew either before or after reading it?
Yes. I wish people would start with the Instructions. This literary genre gives a much better and more relatable introduction to the Egyptian mindset. (Instruction of Ptahhotep, of Ani, of Amenemope, Instruction for King Merikare, Cheti's satire of the trades... those would be the most important ones. They're all online somewhere)
The Book of the Dead is a collection of spells, and in itself just one in a collection of funerary texts, and really obscure and difficult in its allusions. You can of course read it if you like, but if you don't have a lot of background knowledge you won't get that much of it.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Yes. I wish people would start with the Instructions. This literary genre gives a much better and more relatable introduction to the Egyptian mindset. (Instruction of Ptahhotep, of Ani, of Amenemope, Instruction for King Merikare, Cheti's satire of the trades... those would be the most important ones. They're all online somewhere)
The Book of the Dead is a collection of spells, and in itself just one in a collection of funerary texts, and really obscure and difficult in its allusions. You can of course read it if you like, but if you don't have a lot of background knowledge you won't get that much of it.
I believe the Book of the Dead says that creation took place in the east. Is that correct in your reading?
 

Tamino

Active Member
I believe the Book of the Dead says that creation took place in the east. Is that correct in your reading?
In a general sense: sure. I mean, the East is a place of creation, since the sun rises in the east and it is thus the place of the (re-)creation of Ra.
But if you are talking about the creation of the cosmos and a specific location of the benben - I don't know if the Book of the Dead describes that, beyond short allusions. Would you know which spell this is supposed to be from?
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
I have another question!

How can we be so sure that aliens didn't build the pyramids?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I have another question!

How can we be so sure that aliens didn't build the pyramids?
I was going to ask a similar question.
There are so many "alternative" "theories" on the net, but I can't find videos or papers that debunk the "theories" or explain how archaeologists know about the Egyptian Monuments. Is there any?
 

Tamino

Active Member
I have another question!

How can we be so sure that aliens didn't build the pyramids?
Really? Do you really want to go there, or do you just want to poke me with a stick and see what happens? :eek:

How about this one (and it's just one point among many): the architecture and the historical development of the Egyptian royal tomb is exceptionally well attested for a period of more than 2000 years.

From the pre-Dynastic cemetery of Hierakonpolis, to the first large mastaba-like tombs with their funerary enclosures and the retainer burials, leading up to the magnificent step pyramid complex, the experiments of Seneferu, the huge pyramids of Gizeh, the shift towards the sun cult, the written record of the pyramid texts starting with Unas, the outlier of Mentuhotep's Theban tomb, the 12th Dynasty "cheap" brick constructions and finally the transition to the rock-cut tombs of the New Kingdom : it's a perfectly clear and unbroken line of traditions and innovations. So where, exactly, should the supposed aliens come in?? The pyramids of Gizeh are unusual in their size, but perfectly ordinary in their structure.
 

Tamino

Active Member
I was going to ask a similar question.
There are so many "alternative" "theories" on the net, but I can't find videos or papers that debunk the "theories" or explain how archaeologists know about the Egyptian Monuments. Is there any?
That's kind of the problem. For Egyptologists, the alternative theories are such an obvious nonsense that they don't really feel the need to address them.
You may want to look for any content featuring Mark Lehner. He's not even an Egyptologist originally ... he started out with theories about Atlanteans and went to Cairo for research. He eventually got a doctor's degree in Egyptology and is the leading expert on the archaeology of the Gizeh plateau today
 

Tamino

Active Member
I have another question!

How can we be so sure that aliens didn't build the pyramids?
Here's another one:
We found the work diary of a captain who transported stones for the pyramid of Khufu.
A perfectly ordinary, bureaucratic account of the daily schedule of his crew, dragging stones to the ship, sailing, dragging stones to the construction site, sailing back, etc. No aliens, no anti-gravitation rays, no mysterious Atlantean priest kings...
 

Tamino

Active Member
I have another question!

How can we be so sure that aliens didn't build the pyramids?
Another one:
We have found ample evidence of large scale food production around the construction sites. Bakeries, breweries, butchers. Young cattle was imported from the Delta region in large numbers.
So, who was eating all that food? The Aliens? What's the probability of an alien metabolism running on bread and beef versus, you know... Human workers

Shall I keep going? :cool:
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Another one:
We have found ample evidence of large scale food production around the construction sites. Bakeries, breweries, butchers. Young cattle was imported from the Delta region in large numbers.
So, who was eating all that food? The Aliens? What's the probability of an alien metabolism running on bread and beef versus, you know... Human workers

Shall I keep going? :cool:
I always thought that the whole aliens thing was really stupid but I didn't know there was so much definitive evidence to the contrary, I just kind of assumed that aliens obviously did not build the pyramids!
 

Tamino

Active Member
I always thought that the whole aliens thing was really stupid but I didn't know there was so much definitive evidence to the contrary, I just kind of assumed that aliens obviously did not build the pyramids!
Rest assured, there IS a lot of evidence.
The thing we don't know yet is just the exact method... Did they use the straight ramp or one spiraling up inside ? Did they have some type of crane an pulley, or just ramps and ropes?
But archaeologists are not bothered by some open questions... they're working on a puzzle where 80 percent of pieces are lost, and half of the rest are damaged. Of course there's gaps in the picture - there always are. Doesn't mean we need Aliens to fill those gaps.

A lot of these alien theories are also plain racist. There's this argument from ignorance... Some of these conspiracy mongers are like
"If I* don't know how to do it, they** couldn't have done it!"
*I = white 20th century couch potato who never set foot on a construction site.
**they = ancient POC with 300 years tradition and life-long training in large stone architecture

I like to say: it's not called the Stone Age because people were too dumb to do anything but bang rocks together. It's called the Stone Age because people were experts in using this material.
 
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