Ask me about Evolution

[Alceste]

What proof we got that Abiogenesis had occurred naturally billions of years ago so we can exclude the superpower deity (the creator).

Science doesn't need a reason to exclude things - it needs a reason to include them. If there is ever physical evidence that life was originally designed, science will include design in its understanding of our origins. Until then, there isn't any reason to do so.

 

[FearGod]

The point is, we don't know precisely how life first developed, whether through naturalistic means or supernatural ones, but we do know how it developed after that point-- through evolution.

We know it developed,but not exactly how it did.

Not knowing the beginning does not negate the part we do know.

And we don't know the most important part and which is the origin of life.
What we got is theories and guess-works

(And not to mention, such questions could be put to everything: It is possible that gravity is caused by a supernatural being, it is possible that gods cause illnesses and not germs, it is possible that we all poofed into existence last Thursday. But since there is no evidence of such, and much evidence for naturalistic mechanisms, the naturalistic understanding trumps these "possibilities".)

Why not regarding the stories happening to others as a message from God to all of us.

i don't think any of them needs to lie specially that they were atheists and converted because something unusual happened to them.

You may say "it happened to them and not me"

One known story in the USA.

[youtube]bEwbSFSQuXs[/youtube]
How I came to Islam - Dr. Laurence Brown | Interfaith Issues - Episode 3 - YouTube

 

[ImmortalFlame]

We know it developed,but not exactly how it did.

What?

And we don't know the most important part and which is the origin of life.

How is "the origin of life" the most important part of "how life changes over time"? That's like saying "the origin of magnetism is the most important part of understanding how gravity works". You can understand the latter without the former, and one subject of research and understanding is separate and distinct from the other.

What we got is theories and guess-works

Dismissing two-hundred years of scientific research by millions of people far smarter than you or I as "theories and guess-works" is insanely arrogant, insulting and shows how little you understand or appreciate the scientific method.

Why not regarding the stories happening to others as a message from God to all of us.

Why should we?

i don't think any of them needs to lie specially that they were atheists and converted because something unusual happened to them.

Do you have any idea how many people claim to have been abducted by aliens over the years? Why should we believe them? Until we have a way to independently verify their claims, that's all they are. Claims.

 

[Falvlun]

We know it developed,but not exactly how it did.

No, we know how organisms developed into the wide variety of species that have existed on Earth. That part is pretty well covered.

And we don't know the most important part and which is the origin of life.
What we got is theories and guess-works

As others have pointed out, we have a bit more than theories (in the popular, rather than scientific sense) and guesswork.

More-over, say that we do discover what caused the origin of life. That still will not change the theory of evolution, which is the understanding of how the various species of life on Earth have developed.

Are you saying that you accept evolution but have an issue with abiogenesis?

Why not regarding the stories happening to others as a message from God to all of us.

i don't think any of them needs to lie specially that they were atheists and converted because something unusual happened to them.

You may say "it happened to them and not me"

One known story in the USA.

[youtube]bEwbSFSQuXs[/youtube]
How I came to Islam - Dr. Laurence Brown | Interfaith Issues - Episode 3 - YouTube

What does any of that have to do with the theory of evolution?

If you think that the belief in the existence of God somehow refutes evolution, then why do you not think that the belief in the existence of God refutes the theory of gravity, or germ theory, or basically any other realm of science?

 

[FearGod]

What?

If you know exactly how it did evolved and what had happened millions of years ago,then till us the story with your evidence and scientific analysis.

How is "the origin of life" the most important part of "how life changes over time"? That's like saying "the origin of magnetism is the most important part of understanding how gravity works". You can understand the latter without the former, and one subject of research and understanding is separate and distinct from the other.

What i meant to say that we don't know exactly how life originated and then evolved,what we got is just sum of theories and a guess-works,prove me wrong if you could.

Dismissing two-hundred years of scientific research by millions of people far smarter than you or I as "theories and guess-works" is insanely arrogant, insulting and shows how little you understand or appreciate the scientific method.

Calm down,it is only discussion.

Why should we?

Did i say that we should ?

Do you have any idea how many people claim to have been abducted by aliens over the years? Why should we believe them? Until we have a way to independently verify their claims, that's all they are. Claims.

Depending on the story,in the case of the Doctor,his daughter is the evidence and his colleagues in the hospital had witnessed it but not knowing what had happened.

 

[FearGod]

No, we know how organisms developed into the wide variety of species that have existed on Earth. That part is pretty well covered.


As others have pointed out, we have a bit more than theories (in the popular, rather than scientific sense) and guesswork.

More-over, say that we do discover what caused the origin of life. That still will not change the theory of evolution, which is the understanding of how the various species of life on Earth have developed.

Are you saying that you accept evolution but have an issue with abiogenesis?


What does any of that have to do with the theory of evolution?

If you think that the belief in the existence of God somehow refutes evolution, then why do you not think that the belief in the existence of God refutes the theory of gravity, or germ theory, or basically any other realm of science?

Evolution can't disprove the existance of God,if you think otherwise,then pls explain.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Evolution can't disprove the existance of God,if you think otherwise,then pls explain.

I don't think he said that..it doesn't disprove the existance of God because it doesn't seek too.

The reason you would feel that it does is because you have attributed certain traits to God. Either creation of the all life in 6 days, or traits like all-loving...things like that.

Most importantly though, which God does Evolution not disprove? The Christian God? The God of Israel? The God worshipped by Zoroaster (sp), Braham? Allah? Bondye?, Anansi? Zeus? Which one does evolution not disprove?

Because if I follow closely you follow Islam so I don't think you would agree that any of those Gods outside of Allah even exist. Unless you believe that is how Allah Manifested to the nations?

 

[FearGod]

I don't think he said that..it doesn't disprove the existance of God because it doesn't seek too.

But the debate always work on such away as to disprove God's existance.

The reason you would feel that it does is because you have attributed certain traits to God. Either creation of the all life in 6 days, or traits like all-loving...things like that.

Only heavens and earth created on 6 days not all living things,and days is not meant by our days

We created the heavens and the earth, and what between them is, in six days, and no weariness touched Us. (50:38)

Do you think that 6 days is that long to cause weariness

Most importantly though, which God does Evolution not disprove? The Christian God? The God of Israel? The God worshipped by Zoroaster (sp), Braham? Allah? Bondye?, Anansi? Zeus? Which one does evolution not disprove?

The creator is OK,whatever other names are given to the supernatural deity.

Because if I follow closely you follow Islam so I don't think you would agree that any of those Gods outside of Allah even exist. Unless you believe that is how Allah Manifested to the nations?

Calling God as the creator & evolver is fine to me concerning the living organisms.

 

[Falvlun]

Evolution can't disprove the existance of God,if you think otherwise,then pls explain.

I never said it did.

But the evidence no more shows, nor requires, a God than germ theory requires the existence of malevolent aliens.

Germ theory does not need to prove that malevolent aliens aren't actually causing diseases, since there is no evidence or need of such a hypothesis. Likewise, evolution does not need to prove that a God didn't actually create life since there is no evidence, nor need, for such a hypothesis.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

But the debate always work on such away as to disprove God's existance.



Only heavens and earth created on 6 days not all living things,and days is not meant by our days

We created the heavens and the earth, and what between them is, in six days, and no weariness touched Us. (50:38)

Do you think that 6 days is that long to cause weariness



The creator is OK,whatever other names are given to the supernatural deity.



Calling God as the creator & evolver is fine to me concerning the living organisms.

So You do believe that everyone is worshipping the Same God then? Despite differences in what they say?

The debate does no such thing, the debate may redefine how people talk about God. If you have no problems with the redefining that Christians, Jews, Zoroasters, Hindus, and all other religions do to God because (as you seem to believe they all believe in the same God), then why would you have a problem with the redefining that evolution does?

 

[FearGod]

I never said it did.

But the evidence no more shows, nor requires, a God than germ theory requires the existence of malevolent aliens.

Germ theory does not need to prove that malevolent aliens aren't actually causing diseases, since there is no evidence or need of such a hypothesis. Likewise, evolution does not need to prove that a God didn't actually create life since there is no evidence, nor need, for such a hypothesis.

If so,why such issues (evolution) are discussed in religious forums and working against creationism as well ?

 

[Falvlun]

If so,why such issues (evolution) are discussed in religious forums and working against creationism as well ?

Because religious people are choosing to believe a literal interpretation of creation over the scientifically supported and evidenced theory of evolution.

It is not science's fault that the world works in a way contrary to how some people wish to believe that it did.

 

[FearGod]

So You do believe that everyone is worshipping the Same God then? Despite differences in what they say?

The debate does no such thing, the debate may redefine how people talk about God. If you have no problems with the redefining that Christians, Jews, Zoroasters, Hindus, and all other religions do to God because (as you seem to believe they all believe in the same God), then why would you have a problem with the redefining that evolution does?

i believe that evolution is controlled,observed and managed by an intelligent supernatural deity.

Nothing can work without perfect plan & design.

If you are given all the pieces that is needed to make one TV set,then i asked you to try randomly to connect pieces in order for the TV to work.

if you'll do it randomly for billions of years,do you think the TV will work and electricity will be always ready for you.

 

[Falvlun]

i believe that evolution is controlled,observed and managed by an intelligent supernatural deity.

Nothing can work without perfect plan & design.

This is a religious belief. It is not science.

If you are given all the pieces that is needed to make one TV set,then i asked you to try randomly to connect pieces in order for the TV to work.

if you'll do it randomly for billions of years,do you think the TV will work and electricity will be always ready for you.

And this is a strawman version of evolution that is trotted out by people who don't know how evolution works.

 

[FearGod]

Because religious people are choosing to believe a literal interpretation of creation over the scientifically supported and evidenced theory of evolution.

It is not science's fault that the world works in a way contrary to how some people wish to believe that it did.

No,thats not true.

God asked us to fetch and search through the land to see how the life orginated on earth.

Say: Journey in the land, then behold how He originated creation; then God causes the second growth to grow; God is powerful over everything, (29:20)

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things. (29:20)

 

[Falvlun]

No,thats not true.

God asked us to fetch and search through the land to see how the life orginated on earth.

Say: Journey in the land, then behold how He originated creation; then God causes the second growth to grow; God is powerful over everything, (29:20)

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things. (29:20)

How precisely is my assessment untrue that this is a religious, rather than a scientific, belief?

 

[FearGod]

How precisely is my assessment untrue that this is a religious, rather than a scientific, belief?

Because as i showed you that God asked us to search for the truth by travelling on earth for the evidences of how life have been orginated,which is by science.

 

[FearGod]

This is a religious belief. It is not science.

Prove me wrong by science.
Can you disprove that God do exist by science.

And this is a strawman version of evolution that is trotted out by people who don't know how evolution works.

Call it whatever you wish,but the answer is that you can't make a perfect job without a prior plan and design,that is science too.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

i believe that evolution is controlled,observed and managed by an intelligent supernatural deity.

Nothing can work without perfect plan & design.

If you are given all the pieces that is needed to make one TV set,then i asked you to try randomly to connect pieces in order for the TV to work.

if you'll do it randomly for billions of years,do you think the TV will work and electricity will be always ready for you.

It's certainly not perfect considering how many animals have gone extinct, and it's not perfect considering how a lot of what keeps us alive also attributes to our aging and death (and I don't mean just humans).

And it might, and it might not. There are plenty of "failures" in the fossil record that's why they aren't here anymore. Mind you some of the most simplistic things are the ones that have survived longest as well.

I wouldn't say it is controlled, or designed. I would simply say Evolution was put into place as a way for creatures to survive. But it certainly does not appear controlled (again plenty of extinct organisms), and designed (why are the tubes that we use to eat and breath right next to each other?)

But you still didn't answer my question...do you think that the way that others view God is okay? That their definition of Gods are just due to their own experiences and thus should be accepted?

 

[Agnostic75]

Prove me wrong by science. Can you disprove that God do exist by science.

The National Academy of Sciences Is neutral about the existence of God. The majority of leading physicists do not believe in God.

Call it whatever you wish, but the answer is that you can't make a perfect job without a prior plan and design, that is science too.

If something has existed eternally, with certain attributes, it might be a conscious, self-aware being who is able to have audible conversations with humans in their own languages, such as the God of Islam, or it might be energy that has the same "creative" attributes, but lacks consciousness, and self-awareness like humans have, and like God supposedly has.

Currently, science cannot settle the existence of the existence of God beyond a reasonable doubt. The search for truth does not have a time limit. A hundred years from now, or a thousand years from now, perhaps the issue of the existence of God will be settled. So, people must use other kinds of evidence to try to settle the issue for themselves.