amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Just a simple question, a stray thought, maybe a hair morbid, so I'm not going make a 5-paragraph essay op for it.
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at the pearly gates, would you descend into hell if they said it would save 2 sinners?
- Thread starter amorphous_constellation
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Thats a hard question. In general spiritual outlook with no religious affiliation, Id say: Yes, I would. Christ died for Christians, so why wouldnt they die for others to live as well? Id love to hear answers to this. Hopefully, honest onesm
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Nope. Somebody already did that.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you.
They shall not say it as:
Deuteronomy 24
16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.
Galatian 6
4But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. 5For each one will bear his own load.6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him
Quran ch 39
v8 If you are ungrateful, surely Allah is Self-Sufficient being independent of you. And He is not pleased with ingratitude in His servants. But if you show gratefulness, He likes it in you. And no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return; And He will inform you of what you have been doing. Surely, He knows full well all that is hidden in the breasts.
I don't see this as a question of whether or not someone else already has died, or needs to die, to "save" anyone; at issue is would YOU personally choose do so?
Two might not be a high enough exchange rate for me, but I'd certainly consider the proposition. At 10, I'd be very inclined to take the offer; at 100 or more, even moreso. On the other hand I have and would again put my own safety in jeopardy to save and protect others in this life, even with uncertain outcomes; I suspect that my inclination that direction would continue after my exit from this life, so maybe even one would be enough.
Not that I personally believe in the pearly gates scenario; just answering whether or not I'd be willing to sacrifice myself for the benefit of others.
Two might not be a high enough exchange rate for me, but I'd certainly consider the proposition. At 10, I'd be very inclined to take the offer; at 100 or more, even moreso. On the other hand I have and would again put my own safety in jeopardy to save and protect others in this life, even with uncertain outcomes; I suspect that my inclination that direction would continue after my exit from this life, so maybe even one would be enough.
Not that I personally believe in the pearly gates scenario; just answering whether or not I'd be willing to sacrifice myself for the benefit of others.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
I would probably wonder if that question gets posed to everyone, and if so just who the hell is in hell?
McBell
Unbound
Deuteronomy 23:2
Marisa
Well-Known Member
McBell
Unbound
Unless the two you are saving from hell by accepting the terms are two who have already accepted the terms....
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Well, course all parties would be "dead." But keep in mind that Luke 16:23 implies that there will be suffering in heaven over such questions. I don't believe in this great metaphysical hierarchy of judgement beyond what the earth gives us, so no I wouldn't do this.
Well, the popular Abrahamic God seems to have preferred the perfect unblemished lambs and animals to the ones with imperfections. Jesus went to the tax collectors, prostitutes and thieves for 'saving', and himself was apparently brought to the altar.
I don't see how that parable implies any suffering on the part of Abraham and Lazarus over the rich man. Only that the chasm cannot be crossed which is what the Church teaches. That to be in Hell is irreversible.
dust1n
Zindīq
The fact that this isn't an option should be indication how little humanity is actually cared about.
Xenosaga Dragonzord
Member
dont worry... in islam faith, hellfire is temporary place for muslim people & Tawhid people
sinner muslim will stay temporary in hellfire, someday they will leave & enter paradise
sinner muslim will stay temporary in hellfire, someday they will leave & enter paradise
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Luke 16:26, my bad. It says " those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us," so that shows clearly that there would be suffering in heaven by people wanting to be with those beyond the chasm, rather than eternal happiness.
I don't think 'want' here implies suffering in Heaven. No one 'wants' anyone damned, but the saved don't suffer on their account.
Secondly, it's a parable. A short story intended to give moral instruction, not to pain over theological details. You're taking out of it far beyond what I think the story was clearly intended to convey.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Well, if you literally believe in heaven and hell, and I don't know if you do or not, I can hardly see how it would then be a parable. Friends and family of the damned might suffer if they believe they didn't deserve it.
Sounds a hair morbid? Yes. But the answer is 'No'. We all had our equal chance I'm presuming??? Fortunately, I think this is a fictitious scenario.
The existence of Hell is Catholic doctrine, but that's not the question here. The context of the story is Jesus preaching to the crowds, which he commonly did by parable. The point of the story here is that one is not to selfishly horde wealth and neglect the needs of others. The rich man lived lavishly and ignored the poverty stricken Lazarus at his doorstep, the rich man lacked pity for his neighbour and consequently pity became unavailable to him in Hell. Christ is saying that you will reap what you sow, so if you wish pity from God then you should take pity upon your neighbours.
The story has nothing to do with Hell as a theological point in of itself.