Atheism doesn't mean much.

[bobhikes]

When someone says, 'I'm an atheist', my reaction is pretty much, "so what"? I mean, it's not telling me anything, it's basically a statement in the negative. It doesn't tell me that the person is excercising some 'rationale' to reach that conclusion. It could just as easily be assumed that atheism is the default position for that individual when not thinking about the ideas at all.

To me is doesn't mean much because like theists there are so many flavors of atheists and its only one part of their personality and who they are.

I would never judge a person by one trait.

 

[deeoracle]

the more the merrier-
There is room under the tree for all flavors - i know people we would have to term poly -atheist because they dont believe anything should get too much of our attention- they dont believe in Television,, newsprint, etc, etc,

 

[Desert Snake]

To me the Atheists present a reasonable argument. It's like, one party has had spiritual experiences and believes
they're not delusions, or believe in blind worship. The other party has usually no spiritual experiences and thinks
it's delusion or a lie. Evilution is besides the point depending on you're belief.

You're worse off in their argument lost in monotheism which is vague in the realm of science.

Science was accepted prior to monotheism and the various religious organizations brutally taking
up the works of witches and alchemists as well as archaeostronomy being suppressed for nearly
a thousand years like science which went through the religious organizations before it before may
have been approved of, after centuries of people being executed and the previous studies and
knowledge being confiscated by the religious organizations.

Mankind's history is mortifying; spirituality is mostly an escape for most people.

Escape into Jesus if you need, Nobody believes in the wrath of God.

Whaat? Why does the Deity change mid-sentence, am I not worshipping Jesus at some point in the supposed religious scenario you're using? Why would I worship a monster?
What are you talking about?

 

[Desert Snake]

What? Oh, do try to be serious. Are you suggesting that if atheists really thought about all this "deep stuff" that they would find less reasons to be atheists? I became an atheist after looking into the eyes of god. I know, I know, human animals aren't supposed to be able to mingle with the boss, but that didn't seem to stop me when I was younger. I know it is hard to understand, but when I looked into those eyes, I saw something. What I saw made me realize what I was seeing. It's pretty simple, really. For the record, to this day, I still count it as one of my most splendid experiences, both the visitation and the resulting realization. It was a few grades beyond liberating...

This is too vague to mean anything to me.

 

[Iti oj]

Disciple is right.

 

[Willamena]

When someone says, 'I'm an atheist', my reaction is pretty much, "so what"? I mean, it's not telling me anything, it's basically a statement in the negative. It doesn't tell me that the person is excercising some 'rationale' to reach that conclusion. It could just as easily be assumed that atheism is the default position for that individual when not thinking about the ideas at all.

It means a lot to me. It means the person doesn't believe in god. It means they've come to that conclusion by some means of reasoning--what it is, I don't need to know. It means they live in a world without need for the sacred, the poet, and the marriage of heaven and earth. And that's okay.

 

[Desert Snake]

Disciple is right.

Thanks. :highfive:

 

[LuisDantas]

This is too vague to mean anything to me.

Did my commentary (post #12) help any?

 

[LuisDantas]

To me is doesn't mean much because like theists there are so many flavors of atheists and its only one part of their personality and who they are.

I would never judge a person by one trait.

For better or worse, I do judge people by one trait all the time. Within certain parameters, that is both acceptable and necessary.

If nothing else, it certainly seems fair to judge that someone who claims to be an atheist does not believe that there is a God, until and unless some evidence to the contrary is found.

 

[LuisDantas]

Generally I see that atheists are of two types.

The first is those who are sick of religion and what it offers and had enough with it. This may be due that they were in the wrong religion.

That probably happens, but I figure that they are somewhat rare.

The second is that who aren't convinced.

Those exist as well. Again, perhaps not as many as you may expect them to be. Not too many people who do not believe in God are worse off for it, or even think that they are.

But if you think that everyone will eventually believe in God given adequate evidence, you are bound to have a major disappointment eventually, for there is definitely a third, perhaps the main, type of atheist. Some of us are, for lack of a better expression, "meant to be" atheists. We quite simply have no use for the belief in deities, and never will.

 

[Desert Snake]

I have heard such claims before. It makes more sense than it looks like at first, particularly once one realizes that (most?) deities are very much human creations and explores the consequences.

Some people have actually engaged in the activity of creating personal deities and questioning their worth. I figure YmirGF did just that and then decided he had better ways of spending his time, but of course we have to ask him to know.

The fact is, I don't really know what Ymir meant. If he wants to leave his story open-ended then that's fine, but I don't want to assign some 'meaning' to it that he didn't mean, either.

 

[LuisDantas]

The fact is, I don't really know what Ymir meant. If he wants to leave his story open-ended then that's fine, but I don't want to assign some 'meaning' to it that he didn't mean, either.

Ironically, I suspect you may be more right than you suspect.

My grasp of Ymir's beliefs is provisional at the very best, but I still think it is fair to say that he is big on "finding one's own truths".

It may be not so much that he wants to leave the matter hanging as that he finds it futile to attempt to fit his views in someone else's perspective.

 

[LuisDantas]

finding ones own truths is my perspective as well.
That's why I'm not assigning any meaning to it, because, it could mean a few different things.

But, yeah, I get what you're saying.

It is possible that not making wrong assumptions is a priority to you, while not holding them is more of a priority to me, and for that reason I am a bit more daring than you in some matters.

 

[LuisDantas]

Any comments, Ymir?

 

[YmirGF]

Any comments, Ymir?

I will have after breakfast, for now I am just giggling.

 

[Nakosis]

When someone says, 'I'm an atheist', my reaction is pretty much, "so what"? I mean, it's not telling me anything, it's basically a statement in the negative. It doesn't tell me that the person is excercising some 'rationale' to reach that conclusion. It could just as easily be assumed that atheism is the default position for that individual when not thinking about the ideas at all.

Kind of the same when someone tells me they are Christian. Doesn't really mean I can assume anything about their beliefs.

Perhaps a little safer to ignore the ideology labels and allow the individual to actually define their beliefs for themselves.

 

[bobhikes]

For better or worse, I do judge people by one trait all the time. Within certain parameters, that is both acceptable and necessary.

If nothing else, it certainly seems fair to judge that someone who claims to be an atheist does not believe that there is a God, until and unless some evidence to the contrary is found.

I guess if your going to judge by just one trait it would seem fair. Of course if they were lying just to fit it or get on your good side, it might be unwise.

 

[Desert Snake]

Kind of the same when someone tells me they are Christian. Doesn't really mean I can assume anything about their beliefs.

Perhaps a little safer to ignore the ideology labels and allow the individual to actually define their beliefs for themselves.

Agreed.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm confused: are you saying that you became an Atheist after having an "experience" with God/a deity?

That is exactly what I am saying. I'm a bit thicker than most so it took a couple such encounter to finally sink in. I don't expect the average human animal to fully understand. This is very much a "you have to be there" type of thing.

I have heard such claims before. It makes more sense than it looks like at first, particularly once one realizes that (most?) deities are very much human creations and explores the consequences.

Some people have actually engaged in the activity of creating personal deities and questioning their worth. I figure YmirGF did just that and then decided he had better ways of spending his time, but of course we have to ask him to know.

So close, Luis. What I began to understand was that I was experiencing my own creation. Perhaps my imagination, if you will, is far more profound and dramatic that is the norm. I'm willing to grant that, LOL. But yes, I literally met with the deity of Vishnu a couple of times until it just clicked. There was something in the eyes.... and what I saw was cathartic - with a capital "C". I've never been the same and it is quite impossible to either go back or forget, the experience was that indelible.

I promise to come back and add my experience, which is very pertinent here. But today I am taking a road trip. I do not want to give this a quick response.

I, for one, would be greatly interested in what you have to say.

This is too vague to mean anything to me.

It was intentionally so. It's sort of like a riddle or a koan. What do you think I saw? I'll eventually spill the beans, but it's so much fun to tease. Think.... what did I see? (Oh, the eyes were massive... like peering into two of the Great Lakes...)

The fact is, I don't really know what Ymir meant. If he wants to leave his story open-ended then that's fine, but I don't want to assign some 'meaning' to it that he didn't mean, either.

That is wise. Again, unless you have been in a similar meditation/spiritual/psychological state, you cannot possible understand the magnitude of the experience. It's not the same as intellectually "getting" an idea.

Ironically, I suspect you may be more right than you suspect.

My grasp of Ymir's beliefs is provisional at the very best, but I still think it is fair to say that he is big on "finding one's own truths".

It may be not so much that he wants to leave the matter hanging as that he finds it futile to attempt to fit his views in someone else's perspective.

There is some truth to this, Luis. Non-dual experience cannot be fully expressed into meaningful verbal terms. Heck, any verbal expression, necessarily, distorts said experience. For me, it's not so much about so-called "truth", but rather, it's more about keeping doubt and skepticism buffed to a high luster. I think of how much I have discovered on my own journey inward and realize there is so much more to know that I can't allow myself to be too rooted in a given perspective. I wish I had a dollar for each time I thought, "Ok. This is IT. I've finally hit the top. Nothing can surpass this." After awhile you realize that that is just the norm and one gets used to it - and expects it.

finding ones own truths is my perspective as well.
That's why I'm not assigning any meaning to it, because, it could mean a few different things.

But, yeah, I get what you're saying.

Again, so-called "truth", like morality, is not much of an issue for me. It's more about keeping open to new thinking and not stagnating in a given perspective because at higher levels of activity, for lack of a better way of putting it, your thoughts and expectations DIRECTLY affect perception.

It is possible that not making wrong assumptions is a priority to you, while not holding them is more of a priority to me, and for that reason I am a bit more daring than you in some matters.

We are birds of a feather here, Luis. I don't tend to think in terms of right and wrong. I'm much more fluid, as a rule.

Tomato tomahto. If he wants to explain further, fine, otherwise, it's vague.

Fasten your seat-belt.

Any comments, Ymir?

Asking me for a comment is akin to asking Legion for his thoughts on a given matter. The request may result in far more than was initially bargained for.

Can I encapsulate this? Hmmmm. I'll have to think about it to see if I can distill it sufficiently beyond what I have just posted.

 

[Sabour]

That probably happens, but I figure that they are somewhat rare.




Those exist as well. Again, perhaps not as many as you may expect them to be. Not too many people who do not believe in God are worse off for it, or even think that they are.

But if you think that everyone will eventually believe in God given adequate evidence, you are bound to have a major disappointment eventually, for there is definitely a third, perhaps the main, type of atheist. Some of us are, for lack of a better expression, "meant to be" atheists. We quite simply have no use for the belief in deities, and never will.

I don't believe that there are people who are meant to be atheist for every person needs aspiration or something to direct him. Maybe someone to look up to. Someone of example. Someone he would follow his footsteps. So I believe that all people actually need something or someone to believe in. It is a human nature. It sometimes happens that this person or something is his self