Atheism is a faith

[MoonWater]

Yes, I have seen how people like to jump from one definition to another without regard to context. As far as my "slanted assumption" take it or leave it makes no dif to me. Really you’re making me out to be more hostile than I am.

But I(to my memory) have used the same definition of faith throughout this argument the definition that faith is "belief that is not based on proof". This definition is the main basis for and is really what started this debate. "God does not exist" is an atheistic statement as it denies the existence of God and atheism by definition is denying the existence of God. However the above statement cannot as of yet be proven. Because there is no proof it is by definition a statement of faith. And since "God does not exist" is the very basis of atheism this leads to atheism being a faith as Atheism by definition is nothing more and nothing less then "denying the existence of God"

My earlier comment about simplicity and eloquence was simply a remark on how my arguments tend to be longer then the arguments of some others and me expressing a desire that I could simplify them a bit more. However a simpler argument is not necessarily better than a longer argument or vice versa. And I often find that when my arguments ARE shorter people misunderstand what it is I am trying to say.

 

[Jeremiah]

But I(to my memory) have used the same definition of faith throughout this argument the definition that faith is "belief that is not based on proof". This definition is the main basis for and is really what started this debate. "God does not exist" is an atheistic statement as it denies the existence of God and atheism by definition is denying the existence of God. However the above statement cannot as of yet be proven. Because there is no proof it is by definition a statement of faith. And since "God does not exist" is the very basis of atheism this leads to atheism being a faith as Atheism by definition is nothing more and nothing less then "denying the existence of God"

Read this tread everything has already been answered.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/57010-atheism-faith-19.html#post943837

 

[Rolling_Stone]

It obvious that you are misconceived about what atheism is. It is the absence of belief in the supernatural. Most sane people believe in the physical world regardless of philosophical stance. Not to mention your statement is false.

What is "supernatural"? Non-locality (Einstein's "Spooky action at a distance")? The conclusion that matter does not exist with certainty in definite location? Seeing one thing in two different places at the same time? One doesn't have to resort to belief in the "supernatural" to be a theist (unless you think consciousness, too, is a "supernatural" phenomenon).

Does the fact that I don't resort to belief in the "supernatural" it make me an atheist?

P.S.
Even science is beginning to doubt the existence of of the physical world because it doesn't fit with their observations. It remains, however, the only thing they can measure--up to a point.

 

[Jeremiah]

What is "supernatural"? Non-locality (Einstein's "Spooky action at a distance")? The conclusion that matter does not exist with certainty in definite location? Seeing one thing in two different places at the same time? One doesn't have to resort to belief in the "supernatural" to be a theist (unless you think consciousness, too, is a "supernatural" phenomenon).

Does the fact that I don't resort to belief in the "supernatural" it make me an atheist?

P.S.
Even science is beginning to doubt the existence of of the physical world because it doesn't fit with their observations. It remains, however, the only thing they can measure--up to a point.

You're a smart guy, I am sure you can figure out what I meant with the word "supernatural".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But your question brings up yet another: Why do atheists deny their faith so vociferously?

A belief is a mental assent that something is true. ... Faith is putting that belief into action. ... Again, I point to aggressive denial of the use of faith by many who claim to be atheist and who seem to chafe at all things pertaining to theism.

So, your this all becomes ...

Why do atheists deny their ['putting into action' their 'mental assent that something is true'] so vociferously?
Again, I point to aggressive denial of the use of ['putting into action' their 'mental assent that something is true'] by many who claim to be atheist ...​

To be honest, I am aware of no tendency among atheists to vociferously deny putting into action a mental assent that something is true. Nor, I suspect, do you. In fact, the only 'vociferous denial' I see relevant to this discussion is the curious denial that their exists any epistemic difference between (a) sitting down in a chair that one believes to be there and (2) praying to a God that one believes to be there.

 

[doppelganger]

No Frubals for you!

Perhaps a pair of these is in order:

 

[UnTheist]

 

[Scuba Pete]

To be honest, I am aware of no tendency among atheists to vociferously deny putting into action a mental assent that something is true.

Jay,

You consented to answering the question two pages ago, but now it seems that you are hiding from it. As with most people it appears that you used the caveat "To be honest" as a means merely to duck the question.

Atheists can either affirm or deny that faith is a part of their belief structure. From this discussion, it appears that many have an issue with the term "faith", and while I have posited some reasons as to why, I would much rather hear them from YOU.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You consented to answering the question two pages ago, but now it seems that you are hiding from it. As with most people it appears that you used the caveat "To be honest" as a means merely to duck the question.

That was dishonest and uncalled for.

Atheists can either affirm or deny that faith is a part of their belief structure. From this discussion, it appears that many have an issue with the term "faith", and while I have posited some reasons as to why, I would much rather hear them from YOU.

And you have. You simply chose to ignore or, perhaps, misinterpret what I said.

You claim:

• a belief is a mental assent that something is true, and
• faith is putting that belief into action.

You now write:

• Atheists can either affirm or deny that faith is a part of their belief structure.

This is shameful semantic nonsense. Grease and otherwise dilute the term 'faith' all you wish, but don't expect me to dignify that approach with further response.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Whatever... I feel you are more comfortable being argumentative and obtuse at this time. You are the one playing the semantics game and you are the one who seems to have a problem with "faith". There is no requirement that you have to answer a simple question, and there is also no requirement that I remain and watch you dance around it.

 

[logician]

Atheism really is just a byproduct of rationalism and freethought.

 

[Popeyesays]

Atheism really is just a byproduct of rationalism and freethought.

So is religion.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Rolling_Stone]

You're a smart guy, I am sure you can figure out what I meant with the word "supernatural".

Apparently not. By "supernatural" do you mean some old man with a white beard existing somewhere "out there," outside nature and the universe? Do you mean something observerd but not understood? Are consciousness and mind "supernatural"? After all, they can't be seen or measured, nor can they be explained in terms unconscious matter-energy. To say simply they emerged from matter-energy explains nothing. (Correlations in the brain describe processes, like what goes on in a television; they do not explain consciousness any more than knowing what goes on in a television explains the invisible signals that are the source of the picture and sounds). In fact, to say mind and consciousness emerged from something in which they are entirely absent is equivelent to saying something can come from nothing--a supernatural occurance. This is one of the hidden assumptions of atheism, an unspoken article of faith that is inherent in atheism.

So. no. I do not know what you mean by "supernatural." I do not believe in the supernatural, either. Does that make me an atheist?

 

[Storm]

Why are theists so invested in characterizing atheism as a faith or a religion. It exudes insecurity, like awkward adolescents whining:

"I know you are but what am I?"​

It truly does impress me as unseemly.

In all fairness, I can see where they're coming from. There are some atheists for whom I would say disbelief becomes a faith, which they frequently proselytize.

When I come across such an individual, I don't hesitate to play the faith card. However, I don't make the mistake of assuming they represent atheism or atheists in general.

 

[UnTheist]

So. no. I do not know what you mean by "supernatural." I do not believe in the supernatural, either. Does that make me an atheist?

That would make you a Naturalist.

 

[storm2020]

Atheism is not a faith. "There is no God" is based on the scientific evidence specifically for evolution etc

 

[Storm]

"There is no God" is based on the scientific evidence specifically for evolution etc

How? How does evolution or any other science disprove God?

 

[logician]

So is religion.

Regards,
Scott

Certainly not most religions.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

That would make you a Naturalist.

You're right! A theistic naturalist.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Atheism is not a faith. "There is no God" is based on the scientific evidence specifically for evolution etc

You apparently don't know much science.