atheism is a (religious position)

[Guitar's Cry]

They generally are, it's just not fully defined by the term atheism which is only a constituent part of their belief system.

Agreed. Though this disbelief in god would be not a belief that constitutes a religion in the way that the term is generally used.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I'd say that disbelief is a type of belief

You cannot spell "disbelief" without "belief"

I don't believe in the Loch Ness monster

I therefore structure my life around that disbelief as much as I do my beliefs - for instance I wouldn't waste time trying to see the Loch Ness monster

When it comes to structuring lifestyles disbeliefs work the same way as beliefs

And disbeliefs can be rephrased into beliefs - e.g. "I believe there is no Loch Ness Monster" as opposed to "I don't believe there is a Loch Ness Monster"

I don't think there is any difference between beliefs and non-beliefs

Except there is active participation in a belief in god that constitutes what we term religion. An atheist may participate in their disbelief in god through, say, arguing against theism, but this is not something that is "religious." They may be religious, and I am sure for some atheists discarding a belief in god may have a spiritual quality, but I don't quite see this as being a necessary part of their disbelief in god.

 

[Heyo]

I'd say you are in a state of confusion and have not settled on any one God Concept

I'd say I'm in a state of ignorance, not confusion.
And those who claim to be in a state of knowledge are really in a state of delusion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Is it, though? What about the guy who when asked about god just says "Don't know, don't care"

He won’t be on this forum debating God and religion will he?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

He won’t be on this forum debating God and religion will he?

Well, he would. In a sense it is me.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'd say that Agnostics are unsure about which God Concept makes sense, and don't want to commit to one

Nah, just because none make much sense hardly means we simply can't choose one to believe. It just means none make much sense to us. The tiny bit of agnostic in me mostly acknowledges that there might be some creative force - but such is not really anything like the God concept that so many who have religious beliefs tend to have.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Nah, just because none make much sense hardly means we simply can't choose one to believe. It just means none make much sense to us. The tiny bit of agnostic in me mostly acknowledges that there might be some creative force - but such is not really anything like the God concept that so many who have religious beliefs tend to have.

I feel the same. God as a word in an empty concept, where you can fill anything in to it, you like. Now that doesn't mean that there is no God, just that we don't know that. In a sense, to know God I have to be God, but I am not God, so I don't know God.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Well, he would. In a sense it is me.

Aha. There's always an exception Mikkel. And quite often, it's you

 

[Heyo]

Well, he would. In a sense it is me.

Not in the sense that you don't care. You care just enough to participate.

 

[Altfish]

It's a relationship to collecting stamps which is such that it makes one a non-stamp collector, which is a category of person

But extending that reasoning to religion; that means that everyone is religious, even if they are a non-believer

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, I no longer think that "Atheism is a religion" is reasonable

However I do maintain that it is a religious position

See this post

Let me help you with another analogy.

A rapist is a criminal. One who does not commit rape (or any other crime) is not a criminal and is thereby innocent.

Innocence is not a criminal position.

 

[PureX]

It's the only logical position possible, since there is no sound argument that ends either, "therefore a god" or "therefore no god," and no other position is possible if both of those are unjustified beliefs.

Don't know = don't know (agnosticism). Not "therefor no gods" (atheism). This is the incoherence of the agnostic/atheist that you refuse to acknowledge.

 

[Valjean]

Don't know = don't know (agnosticism). Not "therefor no gods" (atheism). This is the incoherence of the agnostic/atheist that you refuse to acknowledge.

You're misdefining "atheist," again.

 

[Valjean]

No deities, no ceremonies or ritual, no doctrine, no worship, no beliefs.
That doesn't sound like a religion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No deities, no ceremonies or ritual, no doctrine, no worship, no beliefs.
That doesn't sound like a religion.

Here is one for some atheists:
"...

Definitions​

Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

So yes, some atheists make atheism into a positive belief system.
You really have to learn to check your own claims and not just check everybody else's.
And as always it depends on what definition you use for religion and all of them are subjective.

 

[Eddi]

No deities, no ceremonies or ritual, no doctrine, no worship, no beliefs.
That doesn't sound like a religion.

But an opinion on God that effects how one lives one's life

Sounds like a religious position to me

 

[Valjean]

But an opinion on God that effects how one lives one's life

Sounds like a religious position to me

How does a non-opinion affect my life, except inasmuch as I don't act as a belief in God might dictate?
Atheism is not a position. A non-position is not a position.

A religion is a positive set of beliefs. Atheism is a lack of belief.

 

[Valjean]

Here is one for some atheists:
"...

Definitions​

Atheism is the comprehensive world view of persons who are free from theism and have freed themselves of supernatural beliefs altogether. It is predicated on ancient Greek Materialism.

Atheism involves the mental attitude that unreservedly accepts the supremacy of reason and aims at establishing a life-style and ethical outlook verifiable by experience and the scientific method, independent of all arbitrary assumptions of authority and creeds.

Materialism declares that the cosmos is devoid of immanent conscious purpose; that it is governed by its own inherent, immutable, and impersonal laws; that there is no supernatural interference in human life; that humankind, finding the resources within themselves, can and must create their own destiny. It teaches that we must prize our life on earth and strive always to improve it. It holds that human beings are capable of creating a social system based on reason and justice. Materialism’s ‘faith’ is in humankind and their ability to transform the world culture by their own efforts. This is a commitment that is, in its very essence, life-asserting. It considers the struggle for progress as a moral obligation that is impossible without noble ideas that inspire us to bold, creative works. Materialism holds that our potential for good and more fulfilling cultural development is, for all practical purposes, unlimited."

Our Vision

We envision a world in which policies are made using the best evidence we have rather than using religious dogma.

www.atheists.org

So yes, some atheists make atheism into a positive belief system.
You really have to learn to check your own claims and not just check everybody else's.
And as always it depends on what definition you use for religion and all of them are subjective.

That is not how atheism is generally defined.
Atheists don't necessarily hold any position on the supernatural, per se. It has no aim to establish any particular lifestyle. An atheist need know nothing of physical laws or constants.

Yes, some atheists develop a belief system based on non-belief, and some positively believe there is no God, but these are not what unmodified "atheism" refers to.
If all words were subjective, in the sense of personally defined, communication would be in big trouble.

 

[Valjean]

But an opinion on God that effects how one lives one's life

Sounds like a religious position to me

Not necessarily. My cat's lack of belief/opinion on God doesn't affect her life.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That is not how atheism is generally defined.
Atheists don't necessarily hold any position on the supernatural, per se. It has no aim to establish any particular lifestyle. An atheist need know nothing of physical laws or constants.

Yes, some atheists develop a belief system based on non-belief, and some positively believe there is no God, but these are not what unmodified "atheism" refers to.
If all words were subjective, in the sense of personally defined, communication would be in big trouble.

Well, all words are that, subjective. It is just that we have the biological effect of shared subjective understanding, but that is not objective. It is shared subjectivity.
The joke is that you can't point to the meaning of a word, because meaning is subjective and requires a brain.
Now look up the languages of Linear A and B and explain how come we can only read one of them, if the meaning of words is objective.