Atheism is not a default position

[leibowde84]

You can be agnostic before you become anything. Without any outside influence. It doesn't take divine teachings to believe in a divinity, it just takes thought. You can believe everything has an explanation or believe somethings don't. I was agnostic as a default position as a child.

What about the time before you were introduced to the notion of a deity? What would you be "thinking" about then?

 

[Thief]

atheism, by definition, is the lack of belief in a god or gods.
This and agnosticism, by definition, is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in god, I believe are default positions depending on the individual.
Without any cultural or religious influence, you either believe in scientific reasoning and disbelieve in a deity or you are simply not sure. So they are, in fact, religious default positions.
That isn't to say people don't go from conforming to a religion to atheism or agnosticism.

you're not helping.

the nonbelievers want to label anything without the ability to make a declaration....atheist.

atheism IS a declaration.
you need the working knowledge of the word 'god' in your head....to make ANY declaration about ANY god.

there are two levels of ignorance.....
they who are not informed are ignorant.
they who choose to ignore are profoundly ignorant.

and atheist has a working collection of thought....and has made a decision.
pronouncement of that decision is a declaration......no god.

 

[Emi]

What about the time before you were introduced to the notion of a deity? What would you be "thinking" about then?

Since I was about five years old, I didn't believe that science could answer everything. I believed there was something powerful out there that guided us into our next lives. I didn't know reincarnation was a thing when I thought this. I thought about it for a couple months before explaining my beliefs to my parents. They quickly dismissed me, introduced me to God, and began bringing me along to church.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

and atheist has a working collection of thought....and has made a decision.
pronouncement of that decision is a declaration......no god.

The world doesn't revolve around your particular god. If atheism was to be a matter of declaration, for it to be meaningful, it would have to be a whole set of declarations: no Yahweh, no Osiris, no Artemis, no Thor, etc., etc., through all the gods that humanity has ever believed in (Edit: or will ever believe in in the future). Here's one partial list of gods:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/a_big_list_of_gods_but_nowhere_near_all_of_them

It would take a very long time to make declarations against each of them.

And I've never even heard of Ratu-Mai-Mbula, for instance. I know nothing about this particular god; I certainly haven't declared it not to exist. How could I when I don't even know its characteristics, to say nothing about evaluating those characteristics to the point where I can make a judgement about them?

For that matter, what about people like you who claim to believe in only one god? Have you ever declared "no Ratu-Mai-Mbula"? If not, can YOU truly be said to be a monotheist by your own measure?

 

[Willamena]

Defining atheism in terms of rejection just doesn't work:

- if you only need to reject SOME gods to be an atheist, then most theists are atheists.
- if you need to reject ALL gods to be an atheist, then atheists have to be omniscient.

No matter what, the implications are absurd.

As argued before, you don't have to know all gods to reject them all categorically: the concept "god," however you define it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As argued before, you don't have to know all gods to reject them all categorically: the concept "god," however you define it.

I - and I think most reasonable people - define "god" in terms of a set of gods, since the concept "god" has no common characteristics. How do you reject something categorically when the category has no common characteristics?

 

[McBell]

you're not helping.

the nonbelievers want to label anything without the ability to make a declaration....atheist.

atheism IS a declaration.
you need the working knowledge of the word 'god' in your head....to make ANY declaration about ANY god.

there are two levels of ignorance.....
they who are not informed are ignorant.
they who choose to ignore are profoundly ignorant.

and atheist has a working collection of thought....and has made a decision.
pronouncement of that decision is a declaration......no god.

Is there some kind of score being kept as to the number of atheists that scares you?
You are certainly scared of something that has to do with the word atheist.
Just trying to figure out what exactly.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

If atheism was to be a matter of declaration, for it to be meaningful, it would have to be a whole set of declarations: no Yahweh, no Osiris, no Artemis, no Thor, etc., etc., through all the gods that humanity has ever believed in (Edit: or will ever believe in in the future). Here's one partial list of gods:

I could list every elf I know from Tolkien's works, but apart from that revealing my incredible obsession with Tolkien it would be entirely unnecessary. You can believe that elves don't exist even if you've never heard of Fëanor, Fingolfin, Finarfin, Celebrimbor, etc. (and not believe in troll's without being aware of Finn Family Moomintroll.

It would take a very long time to make declarations against each of them.

About as long as it would to state all the even numbers that aren't prime.

 

[Willamena]

I - and I think most reasonable people - define "god" in terms of a set of gods, since the concept "god" has no common characteristics. How do you reject something categorically when the category has no common characteristics?

I - and I think most reasonable people - define "god" however it's useful at any given moment, usually determined by one's audience. Its definition is pragmatic. If it's a creator of the universe that you're rejecting, then you're rejecting god categorically. It's irrespective of particulars in the category, and of particular characteristics of similars of the category. We have "category" just to get away from particulars.

 

[Willamena]

The default position is where you are before becoming anything.

And that's counter-intuitive.

 

[McBell]

And that's counter-intuitive.

So?

Intuition heavily relies on count the hits and ignore the misses.

 

[Thief]

Is there some kind of score being kept as to the number of atheists that scares you?
You are certainly scared of something that has to do with the word atheist.
Just trying to figure out what exactly.

no fear on my part.
drawn a proper line.....have no fear....

 

[Thief]

sooooo close....

 

[Thief]

almost there....

 

[Thief]

no one seems to be watching....

 

[Thief]

Just a few more posts!....

 

[Thief]

I can almost taste victory!

 

[Thief]

A few more steps...

 

[Thief]

it's mine......

 

[Thief]

it's mine......

Yeah! 3000 posts this thread!

I win!