McBell
Admiral Obvious
You really should write short stories and novelettes.
Your imagination is going to waste otherwise.
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Atheist Desire to Disprove God
- Thread starter asketikos
- Start date
Your imagination is going to waste otherwise.
Orias
Left Hand Path
Because you believe nothing.
So you subject yourself to self deceit.
The_Evelyonian
Old-School Member
A lack of belief is not the same thing as a belief in nothing. Someone being an atheist does not mean that they lack belief across the board. Atheism is a single position on a single issue. There's nothing inherent to it that requires someone to not believe in anything at all. A person can be an atheist and still "believe" in an afterlife, spirits, the Great Green Arkleseizure, whatever.
Atheism simply has to do with a person's stance on god, nothing else.
Orias
Left Hand Path
Belief isn't structured around God's, I'm glad you are capable of noticing that.
You are an exception, you do not label yourself in Opposition to something beyond you, though clearly you have a sense of it about you.
Comments like that make me wonder why people are so presumptuous.
Satanism is my preference. Emotion plays no role in my own creation, simply experience.
Atheism was a position I defeneded for three years, and this comment I made came from literal experiences of people who label themselves under their religion, "atheist", and then add on descriptive words to sugar up their subsequent nothingness and hypocritical self deceit.
I am capable of defending both sides, theism and atheism. It's just that the greater picture evolves from all of man's gatherings, not some simple minded expression of disdain for an ill-structured belief system.
There is something to gain from all things, of course I am not the only person to realize this, I just tend to see a lot of narrowmindedness in atheists and christians a like, who debate and argue off a foundation from intolerance.
And in this circumstance, one would be a fool to consider themselves as not delusional, we all live and die, by means we create and destroy countless of our own human fabricated concepts.
Sure, living practically applies well when one works to accomplish a dream, but that is the definition of delusion, metaphorically speaking of course.
Your first two paragraphs hit the nail right on the head, you are unlike most non-theists (assuming that you are of course
) and it is people like you that will help others see the greater picture.Acknowledging one's own hypocrisy can only lead them to seeing inconsistancies in others.
nonbeliever_92
Well-Known Member
Wait... what? Could you clarify this please? What do you mean by "Subjectively Objective" and "Objectively Subjective?" It's like saying: That crayon is orangey-blue or rather bluishy-orange.
Orias
Left Hand Path
Ahem, let me repeat what I said, maybe it will come across more clearly the second time.
Atheism is the belief that God's do not exist, and is a huge ontological stance in the view that, atheists are here right now, debating whether or not God exists. Not only that, they are here right now debating what is the best way to live, what is the most logical philosophy, ect. ect.
Of course, atheism strictly deals with a person's stance on God, I never said that it didn't!
It seems most atheists have a hard time understanding that not believing in anything is a personal and specified belief of their own, because you know what, atheists are just as ignorant as anyone else.
Sure, atheists can believe in ghosts and other stuff like that, but that was irrelevant to my point that atheism itself is a self deceitful belief.
You say you belief in nothing, but that is what you belief, and that was my point.
Sure, atheists may belief in other things besides their atheism, but that is besides the point.
The_Evelyonian
Old-School Member
I never said that. When your ready to stop putting your words in other people's mouths, let me know.
You refute yourself right here. If atheists can believe in other things, then how can it be said that they believe in nothing?
nonbeliever_92
Well-Known Member
Atheism is not the belief that no god exists but rather the lack of belief in any god. There is a difference.
Orias
Left Hand Path
Of course, but in your lack of belief, YOU BELIEF THAT GODS DO NOT EXIST.
Is it truly that hard to understand?
Of course, I never said that you said that. I was just saying "you", as in applying to most atheists.
Of course I realize that not all atheists of the same, but that doesn't mean they don't try and use the same argument.
Now direct my point.
Hmm...semantics.
Let's reword nothing into no higher being.
I know plenty of atheists that consider themselves, "buddhists, humanists, universalists, etc. etc."
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The_Evelyonian
Old-School Member
It's still wrong to say that "most atheists" believe in nothing.
It's still wrong to say that most atheists "believe" that no higher being exists. Setting aside for the moment that "higher being" and "god" aren't necessarily the same thing, there's still a difference between lacking a belief in a positive assertion (god exists) and believing a negative assertion (no god exists).
Simply because you reject the positive assertion does NOT mean you accept the negative assertion by default.
"I do not believe a god exists" is different than saying, "I believe no god exists". Until you can grasp that, this conversation is stalled.
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Yes, because it's wrong.
nonbeliever_92
Well-Known Member
I don't believe gods do exist.
I don't believe gods do not exist.
Guess what?
I'm an atheist.
Furthermore, Orias, it depends on the god claim, the definition given about what the god is for an atheist, or anyone for that matter, to determine whether they believe in it or not.
Watch:
I ask Penguin, Shoinan, and any other atheist to particpate in such below.
1) I posit a god made of wood with for legs connected to a flat surface horizontal and parallel to the ground. Do you believe in such a diety?
2) I posit a god that is equivalent to the cosmos. It's all matter and energy in the universe. Do you believe in such a diety?
3) I posit an infinite and immaterial god that is all powerful and all loving. Do you believe in such a diety?
Eliot Wild
Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
I find it really funny and oddly illuminating too that most of the dispute about what it means to be an "Atheist" and what "Atheism" means, is NOT between atheists, but between theists.
I have read this thread, not completely, but I've read a lot of the individual posts. And while most of the atheists have what I believe to be a clear, common understanding of what atheism ultimately means, many of the theists want to argue with them and claim it actually means something entirely different.
Why are the theists trying to force a faulty definition of atheism on atheists? Why is that mostly it is theists who want to claim atheists are asserting there are definitely NO gods? Does it make theists feel better about their own flawed, unprovable positions to assert that atheists themselves hold unprovable positions as well? Is this some kind of second-grade argument -- "I know you are, but what am I?"
I have read this thread, not completely, but I've read a lot of the individual posts. And while most of the atheists have what I believe to be a clear, common understanding of what atheism ultimately means, many of the theists want to argue with them and claim it actually means something entirely different.
Why are the theists trying to force a faulty definition of atheism on atheists? Why is that mostly it is theists who want to claim atheists are asserting there are definitely NO gods? Does it make theists feel better about their own flawed, unprovable positions to assert that atheists themselves hold unprovable positions as well? Is this some kind of second-grade argument -- "I know you are, but what am I?"
gerobbins
What's your point?
Atheists need proof, it has nothing to do with them trying to disprove whether or not God is real or not. Its just the type of person they are. Something like Cuba Gooding Jr. saying to Tom Cruise in Jerry MaGuire " Show me the Money"
Thiests go on faith and Athiests don't.
I see the proof that God exisits by the wonders of the universe but that is just the way I perceive things.
Athiests have their own reasons for they way the percieve the universe.
Now, I can see their point of view, which I did not see before but I have a better understanding of why they see things the way they do.
You have to look at all the religious crap that goes on in the world. Religion is man made whether or not thiests like to beleive it or not.
And religion is the cause of most of the turmoil in the world, from wars to terrorism, to bigotry and so on.
I have my faith and somewhat my personal religion beliefs as well, but I will not try and force them on others.
Look at the Westboro baptist church for example and tell me how an athiest is even going to consider changing their belief.
I am a bit of an anomaly when it comes to my beliefs. Yes I believe in God but I also beleive that the earth is billions of years old, not 5000. I believe there is life on other planets, I believe somewhat in evoloution as it is only logical that a species has to adapt to their surroundings and to me evoloution was designed that way. I also believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth before man. But those beliefs in no way take away my fundamental belief in a higher power and that power being GOD.
Thiests go on faith and Athiests don't.
I see the proof that God exisits by the wonders of the universe but that is just the way I perceive things.
Athiests have their own reasons for they way the percieve the universe.
Now, I can see their point of view, which I did not see before but I have a better understanding of why they see things the way they do.
You have to look at all the religious crap that goes on in the world. Religion is man made whether or not thiests like to beleive it or not.
And religion is the cause of most of the turmoil in the world, from wars to terrorism, to bigotry and so on.
I have my faith and somewhat my personal religion beliefs as well, but I will not try and force them on others.
Look at the Westboro baptist church for example and tell me how an athiest is even going to consider changing their belief.
I am a bit of an anomaly when it comes to my beliefs. Yes I believe in God but I also beleive that the earth is billions of years old, not 5000. I believe there is life on other planets, I believe somewhat in evoloution as it is only logical that a species has to adapt to their surroundings and to me evoloution was designed that way. I also believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth before man. But those beliefs in no way take away my fundamental belief in a higher power and that power being GOD.
The_Evelyonian
Old-School Member
Bingo.
Alceste
Vagabond
IF there is an afterlife, you're going to be reincarnated as a cockroach living on a garbage heap in a slum in Mumbai due to all the bad karma you've racked up attempting (and failing) to add to the sum total of suffering in the world by threatening people who don't share your rather silly world view. So there.
