Atheist Desire to Disprove God

[LuisDantas]

Granted... that God is abused in name and definition. But how do I define is not as good as how do We define. Now I know that as an atheist you do not try to define what you do not believe in... however for my part it is plainly seen in the teachings of Christ that God is love and against any and all forms of self righteous thought and deed.

Then so be it. Just be aware that it doesn't really work all that well for everyone. Some people work great with belief in God. Some people are incompatible with it. And some people misuse it shamefully, often without even realizing that they do so.

Atheist are just as prone to be self righteous as are Theist.

Maybe so. I'm of no set mind on the matter.

I do know, however, that Atheists are far less likely to let their self righteousness grow to dangerous proportions. We have no delusions about having a God backing us up to "prove us right in the end", after all.

So in order to overcome this we need to get off the one liner quick wit and onto a understanding of what the other means. Unless of course you just don't want to. Seeing as that you're in a religious forum I assume you do want to understand why folks believe.

I do. But that does not mean that I will always and necessarily fail to see a point in one liners. They serve a purpose, and often enough they are in fact the most constructive and accurate form of expression.

I'll bet you know the bible than most who say they believe. But without the practice of prayer and a deeper desire to get to know if the Creator of the Universe had anything to do with this god in a box we call the Bible... how would you know.

I suppose everyone must reach his or her own conclusion on the matter, if they want to have any. I have mine.

I say I know because of Jesus teachings applied in my life and with my life in the lives of others. But I know phoneys abound and as Mark Twain says there's two kinds of folks, suckers and phoneys... which one are you?

I am the kind who knows that classifications in two categories are usually over-simplifications.

In other words LuisDantas... don't you think my post deserved better than picking out one line as if I hadn't qualified what I meant?

Not really. I saw a piece of text that I wanted to remark on, that is all.

I don't think I misrepresented your post, I only chose not to comment on other parts of it. They had no bearing on what I had to say, and were not necessary context IMO.

Punishment of love is to live without love. God is love and it would be a form of self punishment not to try to understand the fullest definition of our Creator Love.

I guess it would, for those who agree with your premises. Not everyone does.

Just as it would for me to try harder to understand LuisDantas... and oneliners are not going to accomplish that.

I'm sorry that you feel so, but I also don't see how I could have made myself clearer.

 

[Orias]

I never understood the need for some people to make non-belief a belief.

Because it is simply the belief in nothing?

Someone asks an atheist what they believe, they reply, "I believe in nothing", or simply "nothing".

You know, I do have this interesting hobby.
Yeah, I don't collect stamps.

This is supposed to be a comparison?

:thud:

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Because it is simply the belief in nothing?

Someone asks an atheist what they believe, they reply, "I believe in nothing", or simply "nothing".

This is supposed to be a comparison?

:thud:

In a way. To say that atheism is a belief is like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby or that "unemployed" is a job. Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s), not a belief in "nothing".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because it is simply the belief in nothing?

Someone asks an atheist what they believe, they reply, "I believe in nothing", or simply "nothing".

Which atheists have you been talking to?

I believe in lots of things... just not in any gods.

 

[McBell]

Because it is simply the belief in nothing?

Atheism is lack of belief in god(s).
Why you want (or perhaps need?) it to mean a belief is beyond me.

Someone asks an atheist what they believe, they reply, "I believe in nothing", or simply "nothing".

Really?
What atheists have you been talking to?
Of course, I strongly suspect that that is NOT what they say, it is what you hear.

This is supposed to be a comparison?

It is a most accurate comparison.
Your inability to understand it is most revealing.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

You know we believe God is love... so it follows that we believe our common Creator is one and love is one. So you cannot confine love to some kinky definition easily abused.

So God is subjective like love?

 

[Gloone]

In a way. To say that atheism is a belief is like saying that not collecting stamps is a hobby or that "unemployed" is a job. Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s), not a belief in "nothing".

A lack of belief is a lack of understanding. Below is how atheism should be defined if you are an atheist.

[SIZE=+1]Atheism[/SIZE] (A'thE-iz"um),-n, is defined as:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

The term atheism comes from the Greek word atheos, meaning godless. Atheos is derived form a, meaning "without," and theos, meaning "deity".

Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open the question whether there is a god or not.

 

[Intrigued]

I think atheists feel the need to disprove religion so that they can clear there deep doubt that they have for there atheism.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

I think atheists feel the need to disprove religion so that they can clear there deep doubt that they have for there atheism.

yeah, that's it.

 

[Civil Shephard]

Some people work great with belief in God. Some people are incompatible with it. And some people misuse it shamefully, often without even realizing that they do so.

Well... given that we actually started with this post

Atheist lives are senseless and meaningless.

For Christians, life's purpose is to avoid being punished by the all-loving God.

I can see why you feel that way. In my opinion Christ shows clearly that we do not serve or love or even seek God out of fear... considering the bless your enemies and lilies of the field and seek ye first the Kingdom of heaven and the day is sufficient and all that. Why we as Christians seek to be servants when Christ said he wanted friends is interesting. Friends don't fear friends unless they've been unfriendly I suppose.

Maybe so. I'm of no set mind on the matter.
I do know, however, that Atheists are far less likely to let their self righteousness grow to dangerous proportions. We have no delusions about having a God backing us up to "prove us right in the end", after all.

I think it should go without saying that groups of atheist and their subsequent ideologies that came to power in various times and places prove you are not thinking that through. People are still people no matter what sign they hang over their doors.

I do. But that does not mean that I will always and necessarily fail to see a point in one liners. They serve a purpose, and often enough they are in fact the most constructive and accurate form of expression.

One liners are meant to build up or tear down from the opinion and motivation of the ones putting them forth. I would rather the opinion and motivation come in one package. I for one would that all men see Christ in the light that I do... because I've seen how his teaching can indeed change those with far worse crimes than simply being a self righteous intellectual.

I suppose everyone must reach his or her own conclusion on the matter, if they want to have any. I have mine.

"If you chose not to decide you still have made a choice" Rush 2112 I believe. Well the lyrics on the album actually read "If you chose not to decide you haven't made a choice" which I thought a bit curious. So I switched to Kansas and read Ecclesiates whilst listening to "Dust in the Wind".

But still here we are in a religious education. You have yours? Share it in its entirety and if you already have done that give me a link please. I really would like to read more.

I don't think I misrepresented your post, I only chose not to comment on other parts of it. They had no bearing on what I had to say, and were not necessary context IMO.

"Necessary context?"

OK, we went from God is punishment to God is love to there is not God so he's neither... would you have me believe that you don't believe in any of the three? You're a staff member of a Religious Education forum. It seems to me... I say it seems to me that you have a subtle soft spoken agenda to put forth your beliefs just as much as I do openly. Is this fair and balanced? Where is the arguement in no arguement? To say I'm not going to respond to the feelings and thoughts I'm having as you speak is well... out of context and hardly constructive. What is your motivation?

 

[Eliot Wild]

I think atheists feel the need to disprove religion so that they can clear there deep doubt that they have for there atheism.

What is your belief based on? Have you met many atheists who "doubt" their atheism?

It seems to me that atheism is exactly the opposite of what you have described. Atheism is "doubt" there is a god(s). Sure, there are atheists who take a hardline, stating definitively there ARE NO gods, absolutely not, with certainity.

But in my personal experience, these "strong atheists" are fairly rare, or at least far fewer in numbers than "weak atheists" who simply find insufficient proof to satisfy their own minds that gods exist.

Personally, I find it a bit curious that many people, even right here on this very site, misunderstand what "atheism" is, as the post right before your own so effectively demonstrates.

Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. It's that simple. Yes, there are atheists who claim no gods exist or it is impossible for gods to exist. But that is not the definition of atheism, as some here try to assert. Atheism literally means to lack a belief in gods. It does not necessarily mean to hold a belief that gods do not exist. And any assertions to the contrary are either made from ignorance or from a deliberate attempt to misrepresent the truth.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think atheists feel the need to disprove religion so that they can clear there deep doubt that they have for there atheism.

Your inability to tell the difference between "there" and "their" is a good indication of how seriously we need to take your opinion.

 

[Eliot Wild]

"If you chose not to decide you still have made a choice" Rush 2112 I believe.

Actually, those lyrics were originally from Rush's album Permanent Waves, released in 1980, from a song called "Freewill".

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill.
I will choose a path that's clear; I will choose freewill."
---Neil Peart

 

[doppelganger]

Actually, those lyrics were originally from Rush's album Permanent Waves, released in 1980, from a song called "Freewill".

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill.
I will choose a path that's clear; I will choose freewill."
---Neil Peart

Though it's debatable whether a person who believes in "freewill" is an "atheist." Peart is (or at least was when he wrote that) a fanatical Objectivist.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Though it's debatable whether a person who believes in "freewill" is an "atheist." Peart is (or at least was when he wrote that) a fanatical Objectivist.

Neil Peart is the reason I'm NOT an atheist ... I believe Him to be a God of Percussion.

Actually, I've listened to the band since I was a youngster and have even read a couple of Neil's books, Ghost Rider and ... Well, I can't remember the other one. I knew he was a big Ayn Rand fan, but I never really pursued his philosophical leanings outside of his recorded and published material.

He is one of my true heroes though, especially given his fortitude and ability to keep going following the tragedy of losing his wife and daughter in the same year. I probably would have gone off the deep end ... Which is what he kind of did. He jumped on a BMW motorcycle and rode, like, from Canada to the tip of South America, or something like that. He astounds me, especially when he is playing drums.

 

[doppelganger]

Neil Peart is the reason I'm NOT an atheist ... I believe Him to be a God of Percussion.

No doubt he's a brilliant and gifted musician and songwriter. The lyrics to "Tom Sawyer" are such that the song pretty much could have been called "John Galt."


No his mind is not for rent
To any god or government
Always hopeful, yet discontent
He knows changes aren't permanent
But change is


Awesome song.

 

[Orias]

Atheism is lack of belief in god(s).
Why you want (or perhaps need?) it to mean a belief is beyond me.

Because it is a belief. It is a lack of belief in Gods, rather it's the belief in no Gods.

It's really not that hard to understand.

It's a subjective view that describes not believing in God.

Which is a belief because, what do you know, theists and atheists alike can't prove anything, which makes any applicable view a belief in perspective.

Really?
What atheists have you been talking to?
Of course, I strongly suspect that that is NOT what they say, it is what you hear.

One's that don't consider themselves atheists.

It is a most accurate comparison.
Your inability to understand it is most revealing.

You misunderstand that believing that no Gods exist is a belief.

Anyone can stroll around accusing others of misunderstanding, but the obligation is on this side of the tabel, completely.

To high places by narrow roads right?

 

[The_Evelyonian]

A lack of belief is a lack of understanding.

Not really.

I don't believe in god(s) because none of the god claims I've heard have met their burden of proof. I understand the claims being made, I just don't buy them.

I understand what leprechauns are too, but I don't believe in them for the same reason that I don't believe in god(s)

Below is how atheism should be defined if you are an atheist.

[SIZE=+1]Atheism[/SIZE] (A'thE-iz"um),-n, is defined as:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Nice, except for the fact that most atheists don't define it that way.

In fact, ask any atheist who says that they don't believe in god, "So you're saying that you believe no god exists." and the response you're most likely to get is, "That's not what I said."

Sure, some atheists take the position that a god absolutely does not (and cannot) exist but these "strong atheists" are rare (at least in my experience). Most of the atheists I've encountered are "weak atheists". They don't take the stance that a god absolutely does not exist, but simply that there is insufficient evidence to warrant a belief in one. The latter happens to be my stance as well.

If you wish to use the narrowest definition, that's your choice. However, you'll basically be using the exception as the rule.

Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

The term atheism comes from the Greek word atheos, meaning godless. Atheos is derived form a, meaning "without," and theos, meaning "deity".

I'm well aware of the etymology of 'Atheist', thanks

Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open the question whether there is a god or not.

Agnosticism is a position of knowledge. Atheism is a position of belief.

"I don't know for certain whether or not a god exists (Agnostic), however I see no reason to believe in one (Atheist)."

 

[ninerbuff]

I sometimes think that the religious are more inclined to wonder why we think the way we think.
Atheists KNOW why the religious believe like they do. The religious can't figure out why Atheists believe the way we believe.
We don't bother with whether we are overstepping religious rules, while the religious are almost constantly deciding if they may be doing something to break theirs.
There are extremes on every side, but they somehow create a middle and that's usually where the majority lies. I can live with dealing with the religious the rest of my life, and I'm sure that the religious can deal with unbelievers the same way.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

I think atheists feel the need to disprove religion so that they can clear there deep doubt that they have for there atheism.

Oh no, you caught us.