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Atheist looking for religious debate. Any religion. Let's see if I can be convinced.

Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Truthseeker9 said:
Nope. He has to demonstrate it with his fruits. You have to determine, for instance, if this person is prone to lie. Does he have good character? Does he bring out the best in others that he crosses? Do his writings make sense? Does his writings explain mysteries that seem like could not come from an ordinary human? Etc.
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Speaking of Baha'u'llah's fruits, since had to take Lewis to urgent care I grabbed the book called Baha'u'llah: The Word Made Flesh by H. M. Balyuzi. I have seen that book lying around for years but I never read it, but I started to read it in the waiting area. Then when I got home I looked for it online and thanks to you telling me about many books being in the Bahai Library Online, I found that book online. I will be continuing to read it and it is pretty short, only about 130 pages. I think @CG Didymus and @samtonga43 should read that book if they want a brief overview of Baha'u'llah's life and mission. Also, the second part of the book addresses Manifestations of God and their station and purpose, talks about Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad.

Below is the link to read the book online:

Bahá'u'lláh: The Word Made Flesh
by Hasan M. Balyuzi

London: George Ronald, 1963

Bahá'u'lláh, A Brief Life
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
Speaking of Baha'u'llah's fruits, since had to take Lewis to urgent care I grabbed the book called Baha'u'llah: The Word Made Flesh by H. M. Balyuzi. I have seen that book lying around for years but I never read it, but I started to read it in the waiting area. Then when I got home I looked for it online and thanks to you telling me about many books being in the Bahai Library Online, I found that book online. I will be continuing to read it and it is pretty short, only about 130 pages. I think @CG Didymus and @samtonga43 should read that book if they want a brief overview of Baha'u'llah's life and mission. Also, the second part of the book addresses Manifestations of God and their station and purpose, talks about Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad.

Below is the link to read the book online:

Bahá'u'lláh: The Word Made Flesh
by Hasan M. Balyuzi

London: George Ronald, 1963

Bahá'u'lláh, A Brief Life
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I hope Lewis is OK Susan. All the best

Regards Tony
 
Truthseeker

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
Trailblazer said:
Speaking of Baha'u'llah's fruits, since had to take Lewis to urgent care I grabbed the book called Baha'u'llah: The Word Made Flesh by H. M. Balyuzi. I have seen that book lying around for years but I never read it, but I started to read it in the waiting area. Then when I got home I looked for it online and thanks to you telling me about many books being in the Bahai Library Online, I found that book online. I will be continuing to read it and it is pretty short, only about 130 pages. I think @CG Didymus and @samtonga43 should read that book if they want a brief overview of Baha'u'llah's life and mission. Also, the second part of the book addresses Manifestations of God and their station and purpose, talks about Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad.

Below is the link to read the book online:

Bahá'u'lláh: The Word Made Flesh
by Hasan M. Balyuzi

London: George Ronald, 1963

Bahá'u'lláh, A Brief Life
Click to expand...
I read it many years ago. I hardly remember anything in it.

Anyway, glad I could be of help.

Balyuzi was a Hand of the Cause.
 
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Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Truthseeker9 said:
He's okay. A cat scratched him bad. She told me earlier in a conversation.
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Yeah, he had to have the cut stitched and bandaged but he will be okay.
That'll teach him not to mess around with Simon, my new cat. He is a real sweetheart if he knows you and you approach him cautiously, but Lewis tried to hold him down. He should have known better, that's why I was so mad. :mad:

It's a good thing this happened right BEFORE the torrential rainstorm that just started because I would not go out driving in this weather. I hope the power does not go out because right now I don't even have a cell phone.
 
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Tiberius

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
samtonga43 said:
You have searched and, because of the evidence you have found, know that Bahai'ism is true?

Do you think it is possible that CG has searched, and, because of the evidence he has found, knows that atheism is true?

Do you think it is possible that I have searched, and, because of the evidence I have found, know that Christianity is true?

Note, I am simply asking if each of these positions is valid.
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Your mistake is that the logic only works if it leads to a conclusion one agrees with. If one doesn't agree with the conclusion, then the logic is obviously flawed. :p
 
Tiberius

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Good question. Each of those positions is valid for the "holder" of that position, but obviously all those positions cannot be true since they are contradictory.

In other words, what we know is not proof that anything is true. A belief is either true or false.
It is not the evidence that makes it true or false, a belief is simply true or false in reality. Evidence is just what people want and need in order to determine what is true or false.

What you are asking is related to another post I just responded to: #385 Trailblazer, 5 minutes ago
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So, here's a question. Is it possible to KNOW something that is not actually correct?
 
Tiberius

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Yes, it is possible to know what is incorrect once we know what is correct because what we know is our guide to what is true.
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You did not understand the question.

I was not asking if we could know whether something is incorrect or not. I was asking if a person can ever say, "I know fact X is true," if fact X is not actually true.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Tiberius said:
You did not understand the question.

I was not asking if we could know whether something is incorrect or not. I was asking if a person can ever say, "I know fact X is true," if fact X is not actually true.
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Of course it is, an Atheist says there is no God, they could not be more wrong.

Regards Tony
 
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Tiberius

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
TransmutingSoul said:
Of course it is, an Atheist says there is no God, they could not be more wrong.

Regards Tony
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But if the fact is not true, how could it been KNOWN?

To know something implies that there is evidence and that the fact has been verified. How could that happen for something that is not true?
 
Tiberius

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
TransmutingSoul said:
Truth is always relative.

Regards Tony
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No it's not. Something is true if it accurately describes the world that actually exists (as opposed to our perception of it). Unless you are claiming that there is no real world at all, or that we each have our own version of the real world, then truth is not relative.
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
CG Didymus said:
Jews say Isaac. Baha'is say Ishmael. Born again Christians say Jesus rose from the dead. Abdul Baha', so therefore Baha'is, say it was allegorical. And that's okay. You can be different. But expect to be challenged and asked why you hold those beliefs. And because Baha'is say they believe in all those other religions, then Baha'is will especially be questioned as to why they contradict some of the thing in the Scriptures of those other religions.
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Trailblazer said:
We have already told you the reason so why keep asking? What is it that you don't understand that I have told you or is it just that you do not accept what I have told you? Why doesn't it make sense?
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Okay, you told me the reason why Baha'is believe it was Ishmael and not Isaac taken to be sacrificed. This, and I've told you before, is what I don't understand. We are talking about Genesis. Do Baha'is even believe that it is historically accurate? Do Baha'is know who even wrote it? Next, to say that it was Ishmael, are you then saying that story is accurate? Then, if in the actual story it was Ishmael, was this "true" story ever written down in the Hebrew Scriptures? If so, all those copies of the Bible are gone? Not even a fragment to verify the "truth" of the Baha'i claim?

Then, since there was no Muhammad yet and no Quran yet and no Baha'i Faith yet, why would the scribes change the story? What was there motive? Then, since the Bible was hand written, how many Scribes were involved in this plot? If it wasn't all of them, then there would have been some Scribes holding true to the text and would have copied the story that would have had Ishmael. Then, even if all the Scribes wrote a new Bible that all of a sudden had Isaac in the story, what did they do with all the older copies of the Bible? They collected them all and destroyed them? And all the religious leaders were okay with that? And all the people that knew the older story and probably had it memorized just forgot about it?
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
TransmutingSoul said:
I personally do not think a strong faith is a bad thing, the issue is when the strength blinds us to the possibilities.

A Baha'i now faces the same and also different challenges. As we have excepted all the Messengers, we can look for the good in all past faiths, but that will be looked on by people of those faiths as being wrong. We can not change their choice to see it that way.

The bounty I see is we now have a guide, an exemplar showing us what was offerd by all past Messengers and also have a book of Laws that shows what laws have been replaced, what laws have been kept and what new laws we need to embrace.

Our challenge is the same as all Faiths have had, that is for us to live according to that Message. As noted above the bounty in this age is that we have been given the example, who was Abdu'lbaha, that was Baha'u'llah's gift to us. Abdu'lbaha knew from a very young age who his father was and devoted his life to what service to humanity is all about.

If one studies the life of Abdu'lbaha, it is easy to see how we fail many of the set standards.

Regards Tony
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You make a good point. "We fail". Not that I see Abdul Baha' as perfect. I disagree with some of the things he's written. But, let's say he was perfect... are any other Baha'is perfect? Will there ever be perfect Baha'is? If not, then the things they do and say are not going to be perfect, but something less than perfect. How will less than perfect people bring peace and harmony to the world?
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
TransmutingSoul said:
The spiritual teachings and their meaning are not Abrogated.

What is abrogated is some laws and practices of past religions.

Here is a PDF of a list of abrogated laws.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...cQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1TZE1HrlWRA08drGaSp0Cd

Regards Tony
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"The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions"? So the Baha'i Faith does not "abrogate" any of the other religions just some of the things in the other religions? Okay. And what a the "spiritual" teachings and meaning that are not "abrogated"? As if each religion taught the same spiritual things? But, I guess you think they do. So what are you including as "spiritual" teachings?
 
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