ATHEIST ONLY: Atheist View On Abortion

[Magic Man]

No, that's not what it was about.

Um...yes, it is.

The question was the difference between and abortion and shooting a woman in the head.

Right. In other words, "abortion" or "a woman doing something to her own body" (I'm not sure how you can deny that) and "shooting another woman in the head" or "doing something to someone else's body".

I see them both as murder. How is one murder better than the other?

For one, I didn't even say one was better than the other. I only said they were different. They are different whether or not you want to admit it.

I guess I would judge it by pain, but in this instance, the woman dies instantly, and the baby does not yet feel pain.

Why pain? Why ignore the fact that one is already a viable human being while the other is not even a full human being yet?

 

[Copernicus]

There were cultures that knew the Earth was round long before that, but I'm not sure when it became common knowledge in ancient Greece. Apparently, the first Greek scholar to suggest that the Earth was spherical was Pythagoras, who lived about 100 years before Aristotle. But less than 100 years after Aristotle, not only was there absolutely no doubt that the Earth was spherical, but Eratosthenes had come up with the first precise estimate of its circumference.

I believe that the Hindu scientists were the first to calculate the size of the Earth. Aristotle visited India. Connection?

 

[leahrachelle]

Correct, and that's a shame. Judges on the SCOTUS should be there based on their legal acumen, wisdom and above all their dedication to making our constitutional system as just and workable as possible. Lately, the refusal of certain fringe groups to compromise on irresolvable philosophical and relgious conflicts that involved directly conflicting individual rights are the reason we now have a "litmus test." And the result has been some damn crappy SCOTUS justices.

:/ We think our government is so superior but there are a lot of holes.

 

[leahrachelle]

within the limits of the present laws.

That is the key there.

 

[leahrachelle]

Right. In other words, "abortion" or "a woman doing something to her own body" (I'm not sure how you can deny that) and "shooting another woman in the head" or "doing something to someone else's body".

I don't understand. All I'm saying is that they are both murder. The woman thats carrying the baby usually doesn't have any complications from the abortions, though, because they have found easy ways to perform it.

For one, I didn't even say one was better than the other. I only said they were different. They are different whether or not you want to admit it.

Please don't accuse me of not 'admitting' something. I think differently than you. You may not understand where I'm coming from, but that doesnt mean I'm lying....

Why pain? Why ignore the fact that one is already a viable human being while the other is not even a full human being yet?

I think that it is a human being.[/quote]

 

[leahrachelle]

I believe that the Hindu scientists were the first to calculate the size of the Earth. Aristotle visited India. Connection?

Ha are you saying that he stole their idea

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe that the Hindu scientists were the first to calculate the size of the Earth. Aristotle visited India. Connection?

Dunno - it was the sources that Columbus and his critics relied on that I've looked into in real detail. That was Ptolemy and Erastothenes on the critics' side and Alfraganus/Al-Farghani, Marinus of Tyre and some bad unit conversions on Columbus'.

Fun fact: Marinus of Tyre was the person who came up with the idea of identifying locations on Earth by latitude and longitude.

 

[science_is_my_god]

I was just curious how everyone else felt about it because I have noticed that religious people are a lot more touchy with this. I, though, am stronger than ever against it and I was Catholic when I was younger.

How do you feel about it and why?

I kinda-sorta was a Catholic (my parents pushed it down my throat but I always had strong doubts), and coming from a theistic or at least Christian perspective, the arguement is that "god placed that baby in the womb for a reason and to destroy that, it means to deny god." As an atheist, to put it bluntly, I find that to be a load of crap. Thus said, I personally believe in giving every baby a chance at life, but I also believe that each case of abortion is distinctly unique, and to make the generalization that ALL abortion is ethically and humanitarily wrong, is unreasonable. Thusly, I am against government involvement and bans, but remain pro life. To put it simply: Abortion is neither right nor wrong and I'm neither for nor against it.

 

[crystalonyx]

The reason the religious folks are against abortion ( and euthenasia) is that they consider human life to be sacred. In the light of evolution, however, no life is sacred, but all life is important. This is why we have indiscriminantly killed off many other life forms, considering them to be disposable. The woman should have the right to choose, especially in this day of a population exlosion.

 

[Willamena]

That is the key there.

Just so. Do you want the Constitution changed?

 

[Willamena]

I don't understand. All I'm saying is that they are both murder. The woman thats carrying the baby usually doesn't have any complications from the abortions, though, because they have found easy ways to perform it.

They are only "both murder" if you consider they have different subjects; Matt was keeping the same subject for both examples. "The woman."

 

[doppelganger]

:/ We think our government is so superior but there are a lot of holes.

Sure there are. The biggest one here is that we really don't have an adequate mechanism for keeping religious superstition from continually trying to infect legal policy.

 

[Willamena]

The reason the religious folks are against abortion ( and euthenasia) is that they consider human life to be sacred. In the light of evolution, however, no life is sacred, but all life is important. This is why we have indiscriminantly killed off many other life forms, considering them to be disposable. The woman should have the right to choose, especially in this day of a population exlosion.

What does it mean (to you) to be sacred? I know some atheists (personally) who hold time to be sacred.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't understand. All I'm saying is that they are both murder. The woman thats carrying the baby usually doesn't have any complications from the abortions, though, because they have found easy ways to perform it.

You can consider them murder, but there's still a big difference. If you don't acknowledge that difference, you're refusing to see the truth.

Please don't accuse me of not 'admitting' something. I think differently than you. You may not understand where I'm coming from, but that doesnt mean I'm lying....

I didn't say you were lying. I meant that you might not be admitting it to yourself. (I guess you could characterize that as lying to yourself, but I'm not implying that you're being intentionally deceptive to others here) I understand where you're coming from. My point is that there is a difference between having an abortion and just shooting some person in the head. You may still think abortion is wrong, but if you deny that there's a difference there, you're being dishonest at least with yourself.

I think that it is a human being.

That's fine, but it's still not a full human being. My point was that again you ignore the fact that there is a big difference. You might think an embryo is human, but you simply can't deny that it's not fully formed, in other words a full human being, yet. That is a significant difference.

 

[DallasApple]

Just want to point out that in most cases, when a woman takes birth control after they are pregnant and ends up hurting their baby, it was simply because they did not know they were pregnant. They did not mean to hurt/kill it.

Yes they did if you are informed that hormonal BC does not always prevent fertilization but can result in possible failure to implant or miscarriage after implantation and you take the pill anyway..

So you have the knowledge that any given month you have possibly concieved but the "baby" dies ..because putting that pill in your mouth kills an otherwise potential human.So if she you the pill anyway you certainly meant it to happen if it does.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Because not every sperm is going to turn into a human. I'm not sure how else to say this. You have to specifically perform a particular action to make the sperm turn into a human. You don't have to do anything out of the ordinary for an embryo to become human. It'll do that on its own.

You have to perform a specific action to PREVENT the sperm from "doing its own thing".You are denying a sperm its full potential to become a human being by depositing it anywhere other than a vaginal canal with a uterus attached into a fertile woman.The little darlings never even get a chance to do their own thing.

Love

Dallas

 

[Quagmire]

***Mod Post***

Just a reminder; this thread is in the Same Faiths Debate forum and directed exclusively at Atheists. Anyone who does not identify as atheist please refrain from posting in this thread.
​

 

[DallasApple]

***Mod Post***​

Just a reminder; this thread is in the Same Faiths Debate forum and directed exclusively at Atheists. Anyone who does not identify as atheist please refrain from posting in this thread.​

Im sorry..They were replying to me and Im weak.Please forgive I'll keep my mouth shut even if it burns a hole in my gut. :sad4:

Love

Dallas

 

[leahrachelle]

The reason the religious folks are against abortion ( and euthenasia) is that they consider human life to be sacred. In the light of evolution, however, no life is sacred, but all life is important. This is why we have indiscriminantly killed off many other life forms, considering them to be disposable. The woman should have the right to choose, especially in this day of a population exlosion.

I'm atheist and I think that human life is sacred

 

[leahrachelle]

They are only "both murder" if you consider they have different subjects; Matt was keeping the same subject for both examples. "The woman."

Aah okay thats what I thought. Yes I was using different subjects