ATHEIST ONLY: Atheist View On Abortion

[doppelganger]

I'm atheist and I think that human life is sacred

Why only human life?

 

[leahrachelle]

Sure there are. The biggest one here is that we really don't have an adequate mechanism for keeping religious superstition from continually trying to infect legal policy.

Thats true. Religion is put into way too many things that it doesn't need to be a part of. They don't think that people who don't believe in God will get offended but it kind of is offensive. I don't want to show my belief for something I don't believe in.
I'm sick of going to meetings or whatever and you have to say a prayer first - and for organizations that have absolutely nothing to do with religion.

 

[leahrachelle]

You can consider them murder, but there's still a big difference. If you don't acknowledge that difference, you're refusing to see the truth.



I didn't say you were lying. I meant that you might not be admitting it to yourself. (I guess you could characterize that as lying to yourself, but I'm not implying that you're being intentionally deceptive to others here) I understand where you're coming from. My point is that there is a difference between having an abortion and just shooting some person in the head. You may still think abortion is wrong, but if you deny that there's a difference there, you're being dishonest at least with yourself.



That's fine, but it's still not a full human being. My point was that again you ignore the fact that there is a big difference. You might think an embryo is human, but you simply can't deny that it's not fully formed, in other words a full human being, yet. That is a significant difference.

Yes there is a difference, but only that the embryo is not fully developed yet.
As far as murder goes though, I do not find either worse than the other, no.

 

[leahrachelle]

Yes they did if you are informed that hormonal BC does not always prevent fertilization but can result in possible failure to implant or miscarriage after implantation and you take the pill anyway..

So you have the knowledge that any given month you have possibly concieved but the "baby" dies ..because putting that pill in your mouth kills an otherwise potential human.So if she you the pill anyway you certainly meant it to happen if it does.

Love

Dallas

..? Huh? I'm sorry your wording got me really lost

 

[doppelganger]

They don't think that people who don't believe in God will get offended but it kind of is offensive. I don't want to show my belief for something I don't believe in.

What about someone who believes that the sanctity of human life does not attach until birth and on that basis, has no moral or spiritual problem going to an abortion clinic? Would you impose by force of law your own feelings to prohibit them from doing so?

 

[leahrachelle]

You have to perform a specific action to PREVENT the sperm from "doing its own thing".You are denying a sperm its full potential to become a human being by depositing it anywhere other than a vaginal canal with a uterus attached into a fertile woman.The little darlings never even get a chance to do their own thing.

Love

Dallas

The point is that they do not always find the egg. A good good bit of times even. And that is why sperm is only potential

 

[Magic Man]

I'm atheist and I think that human life is sacred

What do you mean by "sacred" then?

 

[leahrachelle]

Why only human life?

No not just human life. I was just responding to what he said. Animals' lives are special as well, but we need a lot of them for food and for warm clothing; thats the way of life. If we're not killing an animal for food or for warmth, though, we shouldn't kill it.

 

[leahrachelle]

What about someone who believes that the sanctity of human life does not attach until birth and on that basis, has no moral or spiritual problem going to an abortion clinic? Would you impose by force of law your own feelings to prohibit them from doing so?

Umm what do you mean by force of law..?

 

[doppelganger]

No not just human life. I was just responding to what he said. Animals' lives are special as well, but we need a lot of them for food and for warm clothing; thats the way of life. If we're not killing an animal for food or for warmth, though, we shouldn't kill it.

So there are practical reasons why the sacredness of life might not be inviolate?

 

[doppelganger]

Umm what do you mean by force of law..?

A law prohibiting it, that if broken, the police will come and take you away from your family and loved ones and imprison you - that's "force of law."

 

[leahrachelle]

What do you mean by "sacred" then?

I don't really know how to say actually but basically we should never kill someone unless they're trying to kill us.
Please don't turn this around with the baby trying to kill the mother btw because it is not trying to hurt her.

 

[leahrachelle]

So there are practical reasons why the sacredness of life might not be inviolate?

I am talking about animals, though

 

[doppelganger]

I am talking about animals, though

Why is it different for animals? Is life sacred or is only human life sacred? Or is "human life" more sacred than the life of non-human animals? If so, why?

 

[leahrachelle]

A law prohibiting it, that if broken, the police will come and take you away from your family and loved ones and imprison you - that's "force of law."

Oh oh, well yes, I would. And I know where you are going with this - that I shouldn't force my beliefs on them. I feel that this is different though because there is another person involved.
For instance, if I was a Christian and I know of someone who was hurting their own self because it is part of their religion - idk like as in doing heroin is part of their religion, I don't have the right to stop them.
If the person is giving it to their child, though, I would try to stop them.
Idk thats not the greatest example, but my point is, if they are hurting other people with their beliefs, then we should be able to intervene.

 

[leahrachelle]

Why is it different for animals? Is life sacred or is only human life sacred? Or is "human life" more sacred than the life of non-human animals? If so, why?

I would say that human life is more sacred. If animals thought about it, which they might who knows, they'd probably think they were the most sacred.

 

[doppelganger]

Oh oh, well yes, I would. And I know where you are going with this - that I shouldn't force my beliefs on them. I feel that this is different though because there is another person involved.

But to them, there isn't and the reason you think there is is based on a feeling you have rather than any objective standard. It's legal policy based on a superstition rather than sound matters of policy.

The fact is, the whole disagreement is whether there is another "person" involved. You would resolve that against anyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs that you do by imposing it as law by assuming there is no dispute as to that position. That is a classic example of begging the question.

I have an alternative way for thinking about this question that avoids that problem. Are you interested in having a frank and open discussion about it?

 

[doppelganger]

I would say that human life is more sacred. If animals thought about it, which they might who knows, they'd probably think they were the most sacred.

But you didn't answer the real matter:
Why?

 

[leahrachelle]

But to them, there isn't and the reason you think there is is based on a feeling you have rather than any objective standard. It's legal policy based on a superstition rather than sound matters of policy.

The fact is, the whole disagreement is whether there is another "person" involved. You would resolve that against anyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs that you do by imposing it as law by assuming there is no dispute as to that position. That is a classic example of begging the question.

I have an alternative way for thinking about this question that avoids that problem. Are you interested in having a frank and open discussion about it?

Did you read my example though? If you think that other people are being hurt would you not try to help...?
Don't know what you mean but sure

 

[doppelganger]

Did you read my example though? If you think that other people are being hurt would you not try to help...?

Your example is off topic. Indeed, the example you use just demonstrate that you "beg the question" by assuming that an unborn fetus is another 'person' without giving a reason for that assertion.

Don't know what you mean but sure

I mean, are you only interested in maintaining but one view on this subject?