ATHEIST ONLY: Atheist View On Abortion

[Magic Man]

I'm sorry but I don't agree that this is the solution, though :/
Why? Because we are already trying our best to do this, and abortion numbers just keep skyrocketing. There are now 2200 abortions in the United States today. I was breaking this up for my boyfriend the other day and if this number was scattered evenly, in each state there would be 44 abortions each day. Now break that down to the area of the state that you live in: northwest, northeast, southwest, southeast. Thats 10 abortions a day in that section, which is 3,650 a year. 3,650 a year... That is not good, at all.

That's true. That's not good. However, your plan that you put out there isn't really in effect at this point. Do you really think making abortions illegal will lessen the number significantly? Or do you think it'll only lessen the number that we hear about?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But like I said, I feel they are hurting others.
I understand where ya'll are coming from obviously, but my position is firm.

If you asked a Jain, they might tell you that harming any living thing hurts others, and they'd be likely just as firm in this position as you are. Would you have a problem with using this as the basis to make it illegal to weed your lawn or keep your dog on a leash?

You may not agree with my reasons as to why it is a human, but there are good, scientific arguments as to why it is.

There are? Then why didn't you give them?

 

[Willamena]

Or do you think it'll only lessen the number that we hear about?

Probably increase the number that we hear about. The news media love a good crime.

 

[Magic Man]

Probably increase the number that we hear about. The news media love a good crime.

Well, that's true. I meant more like how many would be accounted for in statistics.

 

[lavagod007]

9-10th penquin.

Without offending you. I certainly do not "misunderstand" the law. In 1999 pope john paul the II assisted the campaigning efforts of the archbishop of San Salvador to pass this law allowing forensic doctors to examine the womens cervix. And please stop explaining the hillbilly slang. We get it alright?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

9-10th penquin.

Without offending you. I certainly do not "misunderstand" the law. In 1999 pope john paul the II assisted the campaigning efforts of the archbishop of San Salvador to pass this law allowing forensic doctors to examine the womens cervix.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. My comment was directed to leahrachelle. I was talking about how she considered abortion to be unconstitutional in the United States.

And please stop explaining the hillbilly slang. We get it alright?

I don't think there's anything wrong with a little good-humoured banter on the side as long as it doesn't derail the thread.

 

[rojse]

You have to perform a specific action to PREVENT the sperm from "doing its own thing".You are denying a sperm its full potential to become a human being by depositing it anywhere other than a vaginal canal with a uterus attached into a fertile woman.The little darlings never even get a chance to do their own thing.

Love

Dallas

That passage sounds like it should be in one of those cheesy "humans repopulating the world after an apocalyse" story.

 

[rojse]

I don't know honestly. Do you have a reason for everything you feel?

Surely there should be a reason when you wish to impose your beliefs on everyone else?

 

[leahrachelle]

Then what is your proposed solution? I specifically asked you above and you lied to me. If you don't want an honest and open-minded discussion, I would have liked to have known that before now. Which is why I asked.

What?? Your question was what do I think could be done to stop abortions, and I assumed that was besides banning it. That was all I could think of, AND YES, IT DOES HELP, but obviously not much. I in no way lied to you. I answered your question.

Nope. That's the total number of abortions . . . it says nothing about abortion numbers skyrocketing.

The data is to the contrary. When abortion was illegal in almost every state in the U.S. there were 800,000 abortions performed in a population of 200,000,000 people in 1967. In 2005, when it is legal, there were 1.2 million performed in a population of 300,000,000 people. The rate is the same whether it's legal or not.

Now look at South America, where it's illegal in almost every country. Did you know that despite that, the abortion rate in South America is nearly twice what it is in the U.S. where abortion is not criminalized?[/quote]
You do not know how accurate these statistics are if they are illegal

 

[leahrachelle]

That's true. That's not good. However, your plan that you put out there isn't really in effect at this point. Do you really think making abortions illegal will lessen the number significantly? Or do you think it'll only lessen the number that we hear about?

The point of something being illegal is that it is harder to get away with... Women are going to be scared to get caught, not going to want to pay so much, scared they'll get hurt, etc. I truly believe that it'll go down drastically.

 

[leahrachelle]

If you asked a Jain, they might tell you that harming any living thing hurts others, and they'd be likely just as firm in this position as you are. Would you have a problem with using this as the basis to make it illegal to weed your lawn or keep your dog on a leash?

Well then I guess we'd have to make it illegal to walk on aunts too, and we'd all be in jail right now.

There are? Then why didn't you give them?[/quote]
Because I don't feel its honest to debate something that I just found off the internet and don't have any clue about.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well then I guess we'd have to make it illegal to walk on aunts too, and we'd all be in jail right now.

Could be. So would that be a reasonable thing to do?

Because I don't feel its honest to debate something that I just found off the internet and don't have any clue about.

Yes... it's much more honest just to refer to it obliquely without bringing it out for examination. :sarcastic

 

[leahrachelle]

Could be. So would that be a reasonable thing to do?

If so many people are in jail that we don't even have guards, obviously its not reasonable..

Yes... it's much more honest just to refer to it obliquely without bringing it out for examination. :sarcastic

I dont understand?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If so many people are in jail that we don't even have guards, obviously its not reasonable..

So... the unreasonableness only comes from the practical implications and not from the fact that it would be based on nothing but personal belief?

I dont understand?

Why did you bring it up if you didn't think it was valid to use?

 

[Magic Man]

The point of something being illegal is that it is harder to get away with... Women are going to be scared to get caught, not going to want to pay so much, scared they'll get hurt, etc. I truly believe that it'll go down drastically.

OK, let's say it does. Let's say there are 25% less abortions, or even 50% less abortions. You do realize that the abortions that do take place are then illegal and on average are not nearly as safe as abortions are today. So, you get rid of 50% of abortions, but you probably have twice the number of women dying due to complications, and you also have a much higher rate of complications in the women that don't result in death but still result in lasting medical problems.

In essence, you're exchanging problems. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to go with something like your example, where we teach people and help them understand the situation and consequences, and try to lower the abortion rate that way?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You'd also have people who can afford to just travel to places where abortion is legal. Canada is less than a day's drive from most of the continental US. All those abortions would disappear from the American statistics, but the abortions would keep happening anyway.

 

[Magic Man]

Very true.

 

[leahrachelle]

OK, let's say it does. Let's say there are 25% less abortions, or even 50% less abortions. You do realize that the abortions that do take place are then illegal and on average are not nearly as safe as abortions are today. So, you get rid of 50% of abortions, but you probably have twice the number of women dying due to complications, and you also have a much higher rate of complications in the women that don't result in death but still result in lasting medical problems.

I could honestly care less about women that would rather risk their lives than go through nine months of pregnancy and labor. They know they're risking their lives, and so they're going to accept the consequences of their actions. They are conciously, willingly hurting themselves. Why should I care?

In essence, you're exchanging problems. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to go with something like your example, where we teach people and help them understand the situation and consequences, and try to lower the abortion rate that way?

We're not doing that, though. We're opening more clinics and perfecting our ways of doing it so that its more convenient.
Btw, in a lot of places it is ILLEGAL to teach about safe sex - where I live actually.

 

[leahrachelle]

So... the unreasonableness only comes from the practical implications and not from the fact that it would be based on nothing but personal belief?

I was saying that the unreasonableness comes from the fact that we cant possibly arrest all of the offenders

Why did you bring it up if you didn't think it was valid to use?

What? I didn't bring it up

 

[leahrachelle]

You'd also have people who can afford to just travel to places where abortion is legal. Canada is less than a day's drive from most of the continental US. All those abortions would disappear from the American statistics, but the abortions would keep happening anyway.

Then let them. Obviously we can't do anything about that; I am aware.