Atheists - A Question...

[Vinayaka]

There are scientific theories for NDEs. Have you read Sam Harris?

I spoke to a cousin I hadn't spoken to lately. She recently had a heart attack, and was 'gone' for about 3 minutes in the ambulance. They did surgery same day. She laughed when I asked about an NDE, and said everyone asked her about seeing lights, or all that, because she had nothing at all. "I can't remember," was all she had.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

I'd ask the others why they were leaving. Then I'd get up and stalk the recent visitor.

Basically, I'd seek evidence.

 

[nPeace]

I would assume the Placebo Effect.

So everyone was hallucinating about feeling well, all at the same time.

 

[nPeace]

Another question for you: I get that you're trying to suggest that the mysterious figure performed some sort of magic.

... but what reason would we have to assume that the magic was a positive "miracle"? If we're going to assume - for whatever reason - that there's magic going on, wouldn't it be plausible that the mysterious figure placed a temporary curse on the people who ended up at the doctor's office?

How would you exclude the possibility that your runny nose / headache / diarrhea / whatever was a temporary spell, and the figure came to survey his evil handiwork before the spell wore off?

(Or would you try to exclude it?)

So you believe in casting spells on people... which actually work?

 

[nPeace]

I would say to the doctor how I was feeling and that I am now, perhaps temporarily feeling better.

I would attribute this to a natural phenomenon and would not assume that the mysterious stranger had anything to do with my feeling better or worse. I would make a comment that several people left the waiting room early, which probably meant I got in quicker--a good thing.

And, no, I don't see how this imaginary scenario has anything to do with a spiritual side of life exists. At most it shows that we don't understand everything about why people get well after being sick. But I knew that already.

I'm getting an answer I should have expected.
Nothing would convince an atheist of what they don't want to believe.

The scenario is in English. It's not in Japanese.
Here you all are, can't even answer a simple scenario as it is given, but have to change it up to fit your worldview.

All 30 people and yourself.
So you would think you were dreaming, basically, because the people did not come in at different times.
All thirty are sitting in the waiting room, when the man enters the room.

Can you answer according to the scenario, or am I right - Nothing would convince you. You're already closed-minded?

 

[nPeace]

Depends what was wrong with me. If it was a runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / I'd probably think it had passed, as they often do without the appearance of mystery men. On the other hand if I'd severed 3 fingers with a drop saw and they grew back I'd be impressed.

So you would think that everone in the waiting room planned the whole thing, and by coincidence, you felt good at the same time they pulled the trick.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I would go with “I don’t know” until I get good evidence. Just like anything else.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I'm getting an answer I should have expected.
Nothing would convince an atheist of what they don't want to believe.

The scenario is in English. It's not in Japanese.
Here you all are, can't even answer a simple scenario as it is given, but have to change it up to fit your worldview.

All 30 people and yourself.
So you would think you were dreaming, basically, because the people did not come in at different times.
All thirty are sitting in the waiting room, when the man enters the room.

Can you answer according to the scenario, or am I right - Nothing would convince you. You're already closed-minded?

This is utter bs. Wanting good evidence is not denying anything. It is how we determine truth. How is this scenario evidence of god?

 

[nPeace]

I'd ask the others why they were leaving. Then I'd get up and stalk the recent visitor.

Basically, I'd seek evidence.

This answer is what I would expect from a person with an open mind. This, as well as @Evangelicalhumanist's.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I think it might be better to look at this….

… in this way: “What if all the airlines lost every travelers’ bags in one day?”?

Because, it wasn’t just one patient. It was all of them.

Although I’m not sure where the OP was heading with this scenario.
It would have to be huge, to make any kind of impression.

I thought of it in the same way you're suggesting here. That seemed to be the intent.

I always figured the simplest way for God to prove he was Christian would be to make all Bibles completely indestructible. Nothing flashy. Just that you suddenly can't set fire to a Bible, rip a page out, scribble rude pictures in the margin...

And see how long it takes us mere humans to work out what the heck is happening...lol

 

[John53]

So you would think that everone in the waiting room planned the whole thing, and by coincidence, you felt good at the same time they pulled the trick.

Did I say that? I'm unsure how I would know what any of them were doing there. Chances are most are simply accompanying someone else. I wouldn't know unless I asked each person. That wasn't part of your hypothetical.

 

[nPeace]

This is utter bs. Wanting good evidence is not denying anything. It is how we determine truth. How is this scenario evidence of god?

"why people get well after being sick" has nothing to do with the scenario.
How is that "seeking evidence" to 31 people - including yourself - feeling well at the same time, after being sick?

 

[nPeace]

Did I say that? I'm unsure how I would know what any of them were doing there. Chances are most are simply accompanying someone else. I wouldn't know unless I asked each person. That wasn't part of your hypothetical.

Well yes, you could always assume that 29 people accompanied one person, who suddenly felt well, the same time you did.
That helps.

 

[John53]

Well yes, you could always assume that 29 people accompanied one person, who suddenly felt well, the same time you did.
That helps.

I didn't say that either. Not much point playing if you're just going to make stuff up.

 

[nPeace]

I would go with “I don’t know” until I get good evidence. Just like anything else.

Good evidence would be what... getting a test done on all 30 people in the waiting room, just before the stranger entered, and after he left?

 

[nPeace]

I didn't say that either. Not much point playing if you're just going to make stuff up.

Okay. Scratch what I said.
What are you saying?

 

[Polymath257]

I'm getting an answer I should have expected.
Nothing would convince an atheist of what they don't want to believe.

The scenario is in English. It's not in Japanese.
Here you all are, can't even answer a simple scenario as it is given, but have to change it up to fit your worldview.

All 30 people and yourself.
So you would think you were dreaming, basically, because the people did not come in at different times.
All thirty are sitting in the waiting room, when the man enters the room.

Can you answer according to the scenario, or am I right - Nothing would convince you. You're already closed-minded?

I didn't say I thought I was dreaming. The scenario is not really different than having 30 people in the waiting room and all of them deciding they didn't feel bad enough to wait. Why would i attribute that to anything spiritual?

For that matter, isn't the possibility that the man who walked in a hypnotist MUCH more likely than that he was involved in actually healing people? Or even that some feel good spray was in the duct work? Sorry, but both of those seem FAR more likely.

A much more convincing scenario would be to have three doctors inspect a bunch of people (say 50), find that they are all ill with an incurable disease. Then a man walks into an adjacent room and gestures in a way that none of the people can see. Immediately after, the doctors re-examine the people and, using the same instruments as before, finds that none of them have symptoms of the disease.

Now, *that* would make me interested in what is going on and would suggest there is something very unusual at work.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So you believe in casting spells on people... which actually work?

No, I don't.

Do you think that I said I do?

 

[Polymath257]

Good evidence would be what... getting a test done on all 30 people in the waiting room, just before the stranger entered, and after he left?

Actually, getting a test done before and after. Hopefully by more than one doctor specializing in the ailments presented.

That, at least, would suggest the man had some sort of ability to heal people from a distance. I'm not sure why that has anything to do with a spiritual side to life.

 

[nPeace]

I didn't say I thought I was dreaming. The scenario is not really different than having 30 people in the waiting room and all of them deciding they didn't feel bad enough to wait. Why would i attribute that to anything spiritual?

For that matter, isn't the possibility that the man who walked in a hypnotist MUCH more likely than that he was involved in actually healing people? Or even that some feel good spray was in the duct work? Sorry, but both of those seem FAR more likely.

A hypnotist can hypnotize you by briefly looking at you? Then you feel better under that hypnosis?

A much more convincing scenario would be to have three doctors inspect a bunch of people (say 50), find that they are all ill with an incurable disease. Then a man walks into an adjacent room and gestures in a way that none of the people can see. Immediately after, the doctors re-examine the people and, using the same instruments as before, finds that none of them have symptoms of the disease.

Now, *that* would make me interested in what is going on and would suggest there is something very unusual at work.

Unusual yes, but would you associate it with a 'natural' explanation only, and investigate it from a natural worldview... so that even if no results or conclusion is reached, you would still not consider a supernatural explanation?