Atheists and Satanism

[Kerr]

First I must admit I am not sure what you mean, but I will try and answer to the best of my ability anyway .

Yea I understand what you mean.

I was just never content with atheism, though I must admit it is one of my stronger defenses. Atheism is in itself (to me at least) a position of presumption, where only the "objective" philsophies are involved.

But thats just like asking what came first...the chicken or the egg? The atheist or the Christian? The human soul or the human mind?

Atheism to me is no philosophy or anything, it is just the absence of disbelief in deities. It can be part of philosophies, though. My own fairly incomplete and utterly irrational philosophy can for example hardly be described as "objective", it is more a matter of what makes sense to me. Atheim is a part of it, but it is no more then a part, so my philosophy cannot be summed up with "atheist". That is basically also why I dont like it when people tell me atheism is a philosophy, because it feels like they are reducing my philosophy to a part of my philosophy.

And I do also realize that something else may make sense to someone else, but that doesnt make them irrational or anything... well, at least not any more irrational then me (everyone is irrational to some degree) .

I dont think atheism came before theism, I think they came to existence at the same time.

I kind of see objectivism as a poor limit as to what is subjectively apprehended.

I have my own issues with Objectivism. Just mentioned it because it was the only philosophy I could think of at the time that embraces atheism.

A sword is only useful in the hands of a person swinging it, if they have any idea of what they are doing in the first place. Otherwise a person who knows what they are doing could perform better against a blade being weilded against them, the objective sword is subject to its manipulator and their intent. The man without a sword is just trying to defend himself in the way he knows best

And the man without a sword can beat one with a sword if he knows how, especially if the one who uses the sword have no idea of how to use it .

 

[Dirty Penguin]

We agreed that you disagreed that atheism is a concept, by posting you agreed to debate.

Agree.

Is there a typo in this section?

Just trying to get an understanding of what you mean is all.

The form of Satanism I first discovered was in fact "atheistically" bound, hence is the reason I no longer label myself a "LaVeyan Satanist".

See, now we're getting somewhere. This was not made clear in the OP. Personally I have never heard of Satanism that was (atheistically). I'm an Atheist. I personally don't adhere to the various types of Atheism that exist. I have a friend who labels me a weak Atheist because I don't believe in the supernatural but do accept the possibility that extraterrestrial life exist. I had trouble with your OP because you didn't seem to include the info above.

You say "we" as if those convinced that God does not exist is on your side.

When I say "we" I mean anyone who's already responded to you here and in other threads that's given you the definition of an Atheist and it's subsets as well as the few in this thread that have responded informing you Atheism itself isn't a philosophy or a practice and I, as an Atheist, personally have no hidden motives.

You are far from lacking belief, on any level concerning "God" and his devices.

Which god are you referring to?

Good, now lets drop this attitude and converse.

I don't have an attitude.....:no:

Yea well I offered a more clear and distinguishable concept, an "easier" one that doesn't claim to not be a belief out of belief.

Opposition.

If Satanism is an opposition, as you claim, to Atheism then it is of no concern.

 

[Orias]

So Satanism is just opposition? In which case I'm fine with it. In fact I welcome it. I always like to challenge other peoples and my own beliefs

See?

Its not so much about challenging everything, just leaving the mind open to change. When you leave it open, challenge is not necessary unless people speak on behalf of a closed mind.

I kind of view it like sparring, when you wrestle and spar with a group of people you challenge each other as much as you hone your skills. Same goes with competition and debate, bad blood is created by a mind that has been closed to some experience.

It really depends on how personal the individual is.

 

[Orias]

Agree.




Just trying to get an understanding of what you mean is all.



See, now we're getting somewhere. This was not made clear in the OP. Personally I have never heard of Satanism that was (atheistically). I'm an Atheist. I personally don't adhere to the various types of Atheism that exist. I have a friend who labels me a weak Atheist because I don't believe in the supernatural but do accept the possibility that extraterrestrial life exist. I had trouble with your OP because you didn't seem to include the info above.




When I say "we" I mean anyone who's already responded to you here and in other threads that's given you the definition of an Atheist and it's subsets as well as the few in this thread that have responded informing you Atheism itself isn't a philosophy or a practice and I, as an Atheist, personally have no hidden motives.



Which god are you referring to?




I don't have an attitude.....:no:




If Satanism is an opposition, as you claim, to Atheism then it is of no concern.

I'm glad this misunderstanding is cleared up.

Perhaps I should of made a post referencing what I evoke to be "Satanic", but I figured most of the atheists here have had a pretty good run with me.


And of course there are those who ask, "What kind?".

I strayed from the atheistic point of view because I kept the possibilities open.


As for which God I am referring to it is just simply God, atheism is vague when it comes to it because it simply means "without god".

It can be a supernatural sky daddy to the energy the feeds life. What I view it as is simply "invocation".

And as for atheism, any form of opposition should be of concern for you will always come face to face with it.

Are you a fan of the Art of War?

 

[Orias]

Atheism to me is no philosophy or anything

Atheim is a part of it, but it is no more then a part, so my philosophy cannot be summed up with "atheist".

That is basically also why I dont like it when people tell me atheism is a philosophy, because it feels like they are reducing my philosophy to a part of my philosophy.

I understand, but you yourself mentioned that it is part of a philosophy thus making it a philosophy itself.

To some, belief in God could be the difference between a rapist/murderer and petty pickpocket.

I however, do not see the difference.

Its just like to some people I have to explain that my "brand" of Satanism is kind of like "pantheism" on a more personal level.

I mind as well through autotheism in there as well, though I know a lot of people easily blow it way out of proportion.

And I do also realize that something else may make sense to someone else, but that doesnt make them irrational or anything... well, at least not any more irrational then me (everyone is irrational to some degree) .

I agree

I dont think atheism came before theism, I think they came to existence at the same time.

Perhaps, I think that they are more reactive philosophies, one evil came and then so did a million.

I have my own issues with Objectivism. Just mentioned it because it was the only philosophy I could think of at the time that embraces atheism.

I think there are plenty of other philosophies that could embrace atheism, its a matter of how one subjects the philosophy to atheism, and how they subject atheism to suite them.

And the man without a sword can beat one with a sword if he knows how, especially if the one who uses the sword have no idea of how to use it .

Thats kind of like what I said, but it requires on both ends a strike, a pull of the trigger.

It must land to have any impact of course

 

[Dirty Penguin]

As for which God I am referring to it is just simply God, atheism is vague when it comes to it because it simply means "without god".

Actually we're not at all. We certainly recognize those who profess their faith in the Abrahamic god (Jews, Muslims and non-trinitarian Chcristians) as well as those who profess their faith in God (i.e. trinitarian Christians who believe Yeshua is God). And we recognize that there are various religions/ways of life out there that attribute various aspects of "creation" and natural phenomenon to various deities. Basically there are many, many gods in the minds of the believers....so we're never vague when we require clarification.

It can be a supernatural sky daddy to the energy the feeds life. What I view it as is simply "invocation".

No problem here now that I got some clarification. Without knowing what you actually believe about "God" I would have no idea what/which god you're referring to.

And as for atheism, any form of opposition should be of concern for you will always come face to face with it.

I'm not concerned personally. I have found no religion or new age way of thinking to be any challenge for Atheism.:sad:

 

[Orias]

Actually we're not at all. We certainly recognize those who profess their faith in the Abrahamic god (Jews, Muslims and non-trinitarian Chcristians) as well as those who profess their faith in God (i.e. trinitarian Christians who believe Yeshua is God). And we recognize that there are various religions/ways of life out there that attribute various aspects of "creation" and natural phenomenon to various deities. Basically there are many, many gods in the minds of the believers....so we're never vague when we require clarification.

I understand your point of view, but you do verify yourself as being one without "God" hence "atheist".

Really though, it all depends on if you believe man could be considered "God", or a "Godhead". Not anything supernatural or physically defying, but a literal manipulator of their own environment and self creation and development.

A "God", a lord of his realm and what he creates. Second to that of what we do not "know" (manifest perception to label).

No problem here now that I got some clarification. Without knowing what you actually believe about "God" I would have no idea what/which god you're referring to.

I think of God...like I am playing chess with him, in a benevolent way.

I'm not concerned personally. I have found no religion or new age way of thinking to be any challenge for Atheism.:sad:

Thats understandable.
Whether or not one is concerned of a matter, events unfold that will lead to some amount of concern.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

In the eyes of most atheists Satanism is just another kooky religion perhaps with a greater morbid fascination for death.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

In the eyes of most atheists Satanism is just another kooky religion perhaps with a greater morbid fascination for death.

What makes you think Satanism has fascination in death? Just wondering.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I understand your point of view, but you do verify yourself as being one without "God" hence "atheist".

While there are many gods, according to their followers/believers, I am one that hasn't found a reason to believe in the myriad of deities expressed by the faithful not even the esoteric view you seem to express.

Really though, it all depends on if you believe man could be considered "God", or a "Godhead". Not anything supernatural or physically defying, but a literal manipulator of their own environment and self creation and development.

A "God", a lord of his realm and what he creates. Second to that of what we do not "know" (manifest perception to label).

I see myself as a human. One of may species of animals on the planet. Beyond that I leave it up to you and others to contemplate your existence or "purpose" for being here. I personally don't view myself as "a god". This title has no meaning to me.

I think of God...like I am playing chess with him, in a benevolent way.

I personally don't disagree with your interpretation but what if your interpretation is in error and your "God" is malevolent...or are you from the school of thought that "God" is both?

Thats understandable.
Whether or not one is concerned of a matter, events unfold that will lead to some amount of concern.

In lieu of Satanism it doesn't for me. I have been around for a long time and can't say that their way of life has had any effect on my life.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

In the eyes of most atheists Satanism is just another kooky religion perhaps with a greater morbid fascination for death.

I would say the exact opposite. Since Satanism is in many ways an attempt at anti-Christianity, Satanism obsesses over death's opposite: sex and procreation.

 

[Viker]

I would say the exact opposite. Since Satanism is in many ways an attempt at anti-Christianity, Satanism obsesses over death's opposite: sex and procreation.

I would guess death's opposite is life. That would just be my guessing. Life has some juicy offers to it. I like life.

 

[Orias]

While there are many gods, according to their followers/believers, I am one that hasn't found a reason to believe in the myriad of deities expressed by the faithful not even the esoteric view you seem to express.

I understand.

But whether or not faith is subjected to the existence of said "Gods", it is something that you yourself possess within your heart and the words you commune.

I see myself as a human. One of may species of animals on the planet. Beyond that I leave it up to you and others to contemplate your existence or "purpose" for being here. I personally don't view myself as "a god". This title has no meaning to me.

I like this...

"Satanism represents man as just another animal, sometimes better but more often worse than those who walk on all fours, who because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual" development, has become the most vicious animal of all."-Anton LaVey

I personally don't disagree with your interpretation but what if your interpretation is in error and your "God" is malevolent...or are you from the school of thought that "God" is both?

If it is error then I will be judged.

Like all fathers, you can see and visualize how your fathers and the fathers before you fathered, but when it comes down to it. You must learn, by mishap and fortune.

In lieu of Satanism it doesn't for me. I have been around for a long time and can't say that their way of life has had any effect on my life.

Like I said, just because you don't recognize it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Its happening now.