Atheists have faith.

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think you bash atheists.

And I do agree with you that atheists have faith, but I think everyone have faith, but for an atheist it is simply not a religious motivated faith. Meaning the faith doesn't apply to God(s).

No different than you as a Bahai, probably doesn't have a lot of faith in Thor and Odin, because you do not see evidence for them. But you might still have faith in everyday things you do, in your wife, kids, boss, friends etc. Exactly like atheists does it, the only difference is that one God, otherwise I don't believe there is any difference at all between religious people and atheists.

Faith is basically just to trust something without knowing it with absolute certainty. And since nothing is or can be known with absolute certainty, you could say that faith is everywhere, if we have to go to the extreme.

I see that was an excellent post.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is a rather poor definition. It sounds like you are simply saying that you believe because you want to believe.

Thanks for the follow up. I personally had no real faith, so it was a choice.

I chose to beleive as what I saw in the Message I accepted was reflected in the life and person of the Messenger.

I personally saw they gave their life so I could find and embrace faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks for the follow up. I personally had no real faith, so it was a choice.

I chose to beleive as what I saw in the Message I accepted was reflected in the life and person of the Messenger.

I personally saw they gave their life so I could find and embrace faith.

Regards Tony

Members of a religion giving their lives is more common than you seem to think. It is not a compelling reason to choose one religion over another.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Members of a religion giving their lives is more common than you seem to think. It is not a compelling reason to choose one religion over another.

Personally I look towards the founders, not the followers, as the founders are the best examples, though, there are many saints that have also been great examples of the founders.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

Personally I look towards the founders, not the followers, as the founders are the best examples, though, there are many saints that have also been great examples of the founders.

Regards Tony

Again, very often other religions can claim the same.

 

[blü 2]

What is it to have Faith?

I see that many that do not have a belief in God or a Religion, still have Faith. I see that many actions are based on morals that transcend this mortal world and are thus undertaken in Faith.

We humans get our morals from two sources ─ evolution and learning.

On the evolutionary side, we see tendencies appropriate to us as gregarious primates, routinely benefiting from cooperation: first, and not unusually, child nurture and protection. Then dislike of the one who harms, like of fairness and reciprocity, respect for authority, loyalty to the group, and a sense of self-worth through self-denial. Also evolved are our conscience and our capacity for empathy.

The rest of our morals we acquire from our upbringing, culture, education and experience.

So the capacity for decency is not dependent on views regarding religion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Again, very often other religions can claim the same.

Yes, what I am saying is I beleive in most of the other world religions, because of the Message and what we can know of the founders and then the example of some of the followers.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, what I am saying is I beleive in most of the other world religions, because of the Message and what we can know of the founders and then the example of some of the followers.

Regards Tony

Even when they contradict each other?

 

[Left Coast]

Did I offer that Atheists were not moral?

If I did, sorry. I had a look at the wording and yes it can be seen that way. I should reword it. I guess I am more looking for the motivation to undertake charitable work as to me is really based in faith based actions. No matter what source you see that faith comes from, or even if one does not consider it faith based.

What was offered is if they do care for life and lived that life in service to others, then they had a level of faith that even people of a proclaimed faith rarely find.

Sorry I did it all too quiclkly and now back to work. So not enough thought went into it.

Regards Tony

I appreciate the apology.

But you're playing fast and loose with the word "faith." Living life in service to others has to do with what we value, ie valuing the well-being of others. I value the well-being of others because a) I have empathy and can understand why, if I don't want to suffer, others would not want to suffer either, and b) I see that life is better for everyone when we, as a whole, cooperate and support each other instead of fighting and harming each other. That doesn't require "faith," the evidence for it is ubiquitous.

Do you see the difference?

 

[night912]

Seems as if an atheist has faith that there is No God.
Since it can Not be proven there is No God then it is the exercise of 'faith' in the non-existence of God.

Yes, if an atheist believes that no gods exist, then that atheist would have the same faith as a theist who believes that a god exist. And if an atheist does not believe that no gods exist, then that atheist would not have faith that no gods exist, just like a theist not having faith that no gods exist. So do you understand the distinction now regarding having faith and not having faith in something?

Does make one wonder since we don't see anyone trying to convince or fight over the existence of Santa Claus because everyone knows Santa does Not exist, then why do atheists try to convince others over something that 'they' know is Not real ?

So you do believe that Santa Claus exist? If you don't, do you then defend your position that you don't believe that Santa Claus exist when debating with someone who argues that he does exist? Or do you not defend your position and just accept that he does exist?

I'm not saying that you can't, because how I see it, you are free to believe in the existence of Santa Claus. But if we are having a discussion and you're trying to convince me that Santa Claus exist, I will tell you why I don't believe that he exist and ask you why you believe that he exist. So why do you believe that Santa Claus does not exist? If that's what you believe.

 

[F1fan]

faith

/fāTH/
noun
1.
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

And it has to be actual things. For example a person can't have faith in the Tooth Fairy. It's true even if you really, really believe in the Tooth Fairy.

 

[lukethethird]

"All humanity must obtain a livelihood by sweat of the brow and bodily exertion, at the same time seeking to lift the burden of others, striving to be the source of comfort to souls and facilitating the means of living."

Said the slave driver.

 

[We Never Know]

This OP was inspired by a response in another post.

What is it to have Faith?

I see that many that do not have a belief in God or a Religion, still have Faith. I see that many actions are based on morals that transcend this mortal world and are thus undertaken in Faith.

It could be seen that it is naught but a faith to take a stance that there is no God.

Could that be a coping mechanism, that those that choose this path will not be held accountable for their decisions, that they think they are free of the weight of this world, that they will live how they want to, die and that's it?

Does this free a person from considering that there may be deeper moral or ethical responsibilities, when all we have to use as boundaries, are the materialistic trends?

Personally I have faith and I am thankful that I will be accountable for the decisions I make and the weight of the world can be fully experienced and appreciated.

"All humanity must obtain a livelihood by sweat of the brow and bodily exertion, at the same time seeking to lift the burden of others, striving to be the source of comfort to souls and facilitating the means of living. This in itself is devotion to God. Bahá’u’lláh has thereby encouraged action and stimulated service."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá: Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 182

" Every person must have an occupation, a trade or a craft, so that he may carry other people's burdens, and not himself be a burden to others."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 3

Faith is a service to all we cross paths with, without faith, one can deprive themselves from such service. With Faith our heart longs to be of this service.

So I see an Athiest can have Faith when they too transcend their own desires and serve others in preference of self.

So that is the debate, but is it really a debate?

Do you give of yourself to others?

As this action is a fundamental Faith based moral decision, do you have faith that action leads to better outcomes?

Regards Tony

P/S Edited as the purpose is to explore our actions against faith, it is not to bash an atheist. Sorry it was not well worded.

Some people have faith in political.parties, but not gods.

 

[firedragon]

We don't have faith "in" anything we don't believe exists.

When you say "we" who do you mean? All the atheists, some atheists, atheists in this forum, or anything else?

 

[F1fan]

Seems as if an atheist has faith that there is No God.

Just like adults have faith there is no Santa Claus.

Do you have faith there is no Santa?

Since it can Not be proven there is No God then it is the exercise of 'faith' in the non-existence of God.

Why would a rational adult assume there are any gods? Because they grew up hearing adults say there are gods?

Does make one wonder since we don't see anyone trying to convince or fight over the existence of Santa Claus because everyone knows Santa does Not exist, then why do atheists try to convince others over something that 'they' know is Not real ?

That's because Western cultures are honest about Santa.

 

[lukethethird]

When you say "we" who do you mean? All the atheists, some atheists, atheists in this forum, or anything else?

It doesn't matter, we just want to remain mysterious.

 

[firedragon]

It doesn't matter, we just want to remain mysterious.

Ah. So you have a group with the person I asked the question from thus you have a religious affinity to answer for him? So who else are in this group?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When you say "we" who do you mean? All the atheists, some atheists, atheists in this forum, or anything else?

People who don't believe god/deity exists.

 

[firedragon]

People who don't believe god/deity exists.

So basically a very wide group. So in this group of people who "dont believe god/deity exists", are there some people who believe in astrology?

 

[F1fan]

Yes, what I am saying is I beleive in most of the other world religions, because of the Message and what we can know of the founders and then the example of some of the followers.

Regards Tony

Why do you want to believe in religions?