Atheists have faith.

[Subduction Zone]

Logic it out Sherlock-
Pilate and the priests knew Jesus had claimed he'd rise from the dead, so they rolled a boulder over the tomb entrance and stationed two sentries there to make sure he couldn't get out, and yet he still did, heck not even Penn and Teller could explain it..

LOL! I would suggest that you do the same. Romans almost never took down the bodies of those that they crucified early. They left them up for a very long time. It was part of the punishment. So the first mention we have of this supposed event is in a highly biased source written forty to sixty years after the event by people that were not eyewitnesses to the events. Why give it any credibility? You do not seem to understand the burden of proof in such arguments. You would need to show how the Bible is right. That cannot be done. It is the only source for such claims.

Once again, there probably was not tomb. Therefore there would not have been any sentries. Only Matthew, written 50 to 60 years after the event, even has the fantasy of sentries. That simply adds on even more problems.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're not a straight-laced fundy literalist religionist by any chance are you mate?
Like I've said, speculation is FUN, for example I like to speculate that the blonde shopgirl in the grocers likes older men and that I might therefore be in with a chance..

There are things that I take seriously. And sadly the shopgirl likely thinks that you are a nice grandpa at best and a perverted lecher at worst.

 

[Trailblazer]

The founders of all other religions are in graves somewhere, people can follow them if they like but I prefer to follow Jesus because he's not..

All the founders are in heaven now so what's the difference? Jesus is up there with God and all the other Messengers of God and He is no higher up than any other Messenger because they are all with God in the highest heaven.

 

[firedragon]

If they don't believe deities exist, yes. If they do, no.

Do some atheists believe in astrology?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I find it very interesting to meditate on the approach to this OP, does anybody else see the same diversity of atheists that you will also find in religious adherence?

It's kind of hard to look at it in any other way then to "bash atheists", when the crux of your "argument" is just an OPINION of yours that "atheists don't believe in god so that they can act immorally" which you then present as if it is a commonly accepted fact.

It's quite insulting actually, tbh.

That was not the intent of the OP, so I have not responded to your replies.

The OP is exploring if actions motivated to help others, to work for the good of all, are in reality acts that reflect the aim of many faiths and as such are faith based.

There are many ways to express that, it appears I did not express it well in the opening OP.

Regards Tony

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The motivation is that is something valuable per se. There is no need of any god to have that.
Especially because the origins of morality are entirely naturalistic. They are a necessary consequence of our dependence from other fellow apes in order to survive.

In the same way we know that chocolate is good, while dog's crap is not. And there is no need of any god to realise that, either.

Ciao

- viole

I wonder if we sell ourselves short of our capacity when we see we are bound to nature.

What enables us to transcend nature, to bend and manipulate its rules, what gives capacity of mind?

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do some atheists believe in astrology?

Probably.. Let me check my Atheists' Handbook and I will get back to you.

 

[firedragon]

Probably.. Let me check my Atheists' Handbook and I will get back to you.

Very good.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What? I do not understand what you are asking here? What was "wrong"?

I crossed my wires I think. I understand evolution using faith and science.

I see science, when they look for a missing link will not find one. All the links have the same outcome. The human species has always evolved as a species, even if at one time we swam in the sea. We were never a mutation of the ape species, but at one time we may have been ape like.

The process we go through in the womb will reflect the process of our evolution as a species.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

I crossed my wires I think. I understand evolution using faith and science.

I see science, when they look for a missing link will not find one. All the links have the same outcome. The human species has always evolved as a species, even if at one time we swam in the sea. We were never a mutation of the ape species, but at one time we may have been ape like.

The process we go through in the womb will reflect the process of our evolution as a species.

Regards Tony

Sorry, but the "missing link" is a phrase that those do not understand evolution tend to use. It is an outdated concept based on the mistaken idea that only fossils are evidence for evolution. We do not need to find a missing link to understand what we are the product of evolution. Perhaps you might want to study the evidence for evolution a bit. Fossil evidence is far from being the only evidence for evolution. It is not even the strongest evidence for evolution. You might want to ask a biologist, but DNA probably is the strongest evidence today.

Fossil evidence is merely the most obvious evidence to amateurs.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Then you appear to be abusing the evidence. You chose your answer and are trying to put the evidence through a sieve. This is not the way that reason works.

I will offer that it is at times a different approach in faith, in faith I consider the answer has been given, and as such, what I look for is the evidence for that answer.

So faith tells me there is one God and One human race in this planet. That is what I look for in all the proofs there are on faith, which is the past and current teachings. So if what I have embraced is correct, I should be able to find that reflected in all that past evidence, even if the evidence has not been seen in that way before. A fresh look at old evidence one might say, because the jury is still out.

I will add I should also find that it was a goal of humanity, now and in the past.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The atheists "religion" is political correctness which is fine up to a point, but it's a blind leaderless religion like a ship without a rudder and often ends up making a fool of itself.

The OP is exploring what motivates us to work for the good of all oeople.

I see there are many people that do not have faith that are wonderful souls, that many in faith could benefit from.

I do see that in the end, that we will have to admit we need a captain to steer the ship.

Regards Tony

 

[ecco]

All the founders are in heaven now so what's the difference? Jesus is up there with God and all the other Messengers of God and He is no higher up than any other Messenger because they are all with God in the highest heaven.

On what do you base this speculation? Is that something that God has told you personally?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

@TransmutingSoul good OP and well said.

Thank you for the reply Link, you have given me much joy today, I was struggling to see a bright future, but you have brightened that path. With that small comment, I see Allah is our all.

Regards Tony

 

[ecco]

Do some atheists believe in astrology?

None that I have ever come across.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So what? How does an atheist having faith in OTHER THINGS prove that there is a God?

Done. You have failed at the outset to provide any compelling reason to positively believe in the existence of a deity. All you have (literally THE ONLY THING) is the phrase "You can't prove that God doesn't exist." But that line of reasoning works for ANYTHING. You can't prove that leprechauns don't exist! You can't prove that unicorns don't exist! You can't prove that invisible fart monsters with knowledge of everything don't exist! Ha!!! I've got you now!!!!!!! YOU ONLY HAVE FAITH THAT THESE THINGS DON'T EXIST!!!!! I WIN!!!!!!!!!! YOUR POSITION IS UNTENABLE!!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Oh wait... I would prove myself a complete and utter IDIOT if I though that way. Nevermind.

The OP was not to prove God, the OP was to explore the motivation behind higher morality and work ethics and our willingness to be lovers of all humanity.

These are faith base goals, so if an athiest also pursues them, have they considered that they undertake these actions based on a level of faith? Maybe it is only a faith in their own selves?

Regards Tony

 

[ecco]

I wonder if we sell ourselves short of our capacity when we see we are bound to nature.

I wonder if we sell ourselves short of our capacities when we see gods involved in nature.

A beautiful sunset is the product of thousands of things coming together just right. There is wind and dust and clouds and the position of the sun and even tides.

On the other hand, an omnipotent god went poof! Big deal.


Something glorious, like the Grand Canyon, is the result of billions of years of upheaval followed by millions of years of carving by winds and rains and flowing waters and cracking caused by trapped water becoming ice and expanding.

On the other hand, an omnipotent god went poof! Big deal.

 

[Secret Chief]

The atheists "religion" is political correctness

Political correctness is simply a pejorative term used by the right wing to push back against equality and progression. What has that got to do with atheism or religion?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I wouldn't say it indicates "faith," no. If we have clear evidence of the benefits of some course of action, we don't need faith. Faith is employed when we don't have good enough evidence for something but believe it anyway.

I would struggle to see how low, up to even high levels of faith, are not required in life.

I consider all inventions of man that have bent the rule of nature. I consider how much faith did we have in our science and abilities to send men to the moon.

So likewise I see that reflected in our chosen actions that transcend an animal nature when we undertake moral and ethical actions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's nature. What is your confusion about this? No faith required.

I have no confusion, I see tgat it is spirit that defines the species.

Regards Tony