It is your narrow interpretation of scripture and belief by 'some Christians, as to what sin is, and rather egocentric view that only believers are not ignorant and know what is sin.
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Atheists, Humanists - a verse for you!!
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It is your narrow interpretation of scripture and belief by 'some Christians, as to what sin is, and rather egocentric view that only believers are not ignorant and know what is sin.
leov
Well-Known Member
To understand what happened one needs to know all of the Gnostic story. NT is fully Gnostic, Jesus was Gnostic, Paul was Gnostic. Church was run by pneumatic element and was taken over by 'liwer' psychic element, whom Paul called 'women', 'called' not allowing them to teach 'men' 'saint' - spiritual element. Terminology was different, for two groups, trace Paul's writings, they are addressed to both elements, saints and called without any separation in the text because the text was intended to be red by pneumatic - spiritual element and translated to psychic element. Sin for pneumatic, Gnostic was ignorance , sin for psychic element was transgressions, bad deeds, e.t.c.
This reflects your believe, one of many within Christianity, and should not determine what is sin, and as you define it in relation to ignorance. From my perspective Christians of many ilk are suffering from ignorance by clinging to many versions of an ancient paradigm that is not particularly relevant to the contemporary world.
leov
Well-Known Member
The problem is that Christianity now is not what it intended to be. Cathars who were wiped out was the idea of what Christianity intended to be.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Well, that's rather creepy.
I am familiar with the history. You're appealing to Gnostic belief system in Christianity. That is OK, but all I can say in response is that is what you believe. I prefer to understand the concept of sin and/or wrongful acts in different religions and cultures from a more universal perspective.
leov
Well-Known Member
Her we, in all humility, disagree, and fallible humans do not 'know' concerning the spiritual realms beyond this world, they 'believe,' as I do believe in God.
leov
Well-Known Member
Do you know what “believe”really is, or was?
Yes, the English definition of the word and its use is adequate.
leov
Well-Known Member
I
it starts right there: Greek says it means God persuades person of God’s own reality, does not matter which religion person belongs to. Soul based people only see demiurge, soul people took over Christianity and that is the turn where all gets screwed up.
This has nothing to do with how 'believe' is defined in contemporary English, which is the language we are communicating in.
What you believe is based on faith.
To 'know' something requires for you to offer objective evidence that we and others can agree on.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Of course it is, because the human heart holds evil. If you and I were morally perfect, we need not fear such an assessment. Thanks for giving me another reason to be confident in the logic and clarity of the saving gospel.
We are fallible human beings and the human heart does not hold evil.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Speak for yourself, please. My heart doesn't hold evil.
You're happy answering to the thought police, I guess. But I don't see any thought police anywhere, and I don't think people should be condemned based on their thoughts. Actions are more important in my world.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Huh?
Fallible = Making mistakes (sometimes)
Moral mistakes = performing evil sometimes
And maybe read up on Hitler, Dahmer, etc. and tell me ones don't "hold onto" evil
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
You're right, you so NOT evil, constantly trampling on faith in God at the forum, that's so GOOD of you.
And of course, you're morally perfect, and never do anything wrong--you ALWAYS obey your conscience!
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
What's evil about questioning unsubstantiated assertions?
Is it evil to engage in debate on a debate forum?
Please elaborate. And please explain how you think I've "trampled on faith in God at the forum."
Who said anything about perfection? Perfection is impossible.
As I told you before, I always painstakingly obey my conscience. Are you saying you don't?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I guess I could address your first statements if you could justify your second. I've personally disobeyed conscience, as in, "Gee, I'd like to hold my temper with this atheist forum troll, but it would feel so good to give them the rebuke they so richly deserve," that is--like all other mortals save Jesus--I've disobeyed my conscience to cause harm to another, despite what might be best! Trolls need the love of Jesus, too!
Is it against forum rules to call someone a liar? Because I don't believe, after having shared the gospel with thousands of people outside RF, EVERY TIME using the context, "You don't always obey your conscience and therefore cannot live in a utopia with God", that YOU are the ONLY person other than Christ who "always painstakingly obeys their conscience."
I can give examples if that will help you.