Atheists: If God existed would God……

[F1fan]

Some atheists do believe that. So what?

No, atheists are pointing out that the God Christians, Muslims, and Bahai believe is (given the stories in the Bible) that inevitably this God is responsible for cancers existing in humans. Christians blame the Fall, but even that has problems. 1. this God still created the circumstances after the Fall, and 2. the Fall is a myth, but even if interpreted as true the Fall in the Garden is arguably something God caused. Why? Because the buck stops at the creator. Whatever happens in a universe created by a God is on the God. There is no one else to blame.

 

[Trailblazer]

Who or what set the evolutionary process in motion?

God did.

As a Christian, do you believe that God is benevolent and loving? A yes or no answer will suffice.

 

[John53]

You are wrong about that. Many atheists claim that God is responsible for things that occur on this earth.

Rubbish. You are misinterpreting their posts and your examples prove it.

For example:

9-10ths_Penguin said: You keep contradicting yourself, so it's time to ask you again: what do you believe? Do you think that one person's free will absolves others of responsibility for their role in the the person's actions?

- if yes, then nobody is an accessory to someone else's crime.
- if no, then your whole "God can't be responsible because people have free will" thing is nonsense.
#2779 9-10ths_Penguin, Today at 4:48 AM

He's discussing your beliefs not his. It's pretty clear, a suspicious person might think you are using misdirection.

In other words, if my answer is no, he is saying that God is responsible.

He's not claiming anything he's asking you.

He can retract that if he wants to and admit that God is not responsible.

There's nothing to retract

 

[Truthseeker]

All their arguments have to come back to, "Because Baha'u'llah said so, and we believe he is a true messenger of God, and therefore, everything he says is the absolute truth."

All this time, and that's what you understand??

 

[Trailblazer]

No, atheists are pointing out that the God Christians, Muslims, and Bahai believe is (given the stories in the Bible) that inevitably this God is responsible for cancers existing in humans. Christians blame the Fall, but even that has problems. 1. this God still created the circumstances after the Fall, and 2. the Fall is a myth, but even if interpreted as true the Fall in the Garden is arguably something God caused. Why? Because the buck stops at the creator. Whatever happens in a universe created by a God is on the God. There is no one else to blame.

Nobody is to blame for cancer. It can be traced to certain causes and sometimes a doctor is to blame if he failed to diagnosis it when he should have.

Some (but not all) atheists blame God for everything they don't like.
Rational atheist don't blame God for anything since they don't believe that God exists.

Other atheists blame God because they don't understand that sometimes nobody is responsible, **** just happens, and other times humans are responsible for that ****. God is never responsible because God did not do anything except create the universe and send Messengers, but God is a convenient fall guy since God is not here to defend Himself.

These atheists only hurt themselves by believing this way about God, would they but know it.
Not believing God exists is one thing, blaming God is another.

A man creates a painting and then he sells it at an auction. The man is not responsible for what happens to the painting after it is sold. Likewise, God created the earth for humans and gives humans dominion over the earth. God is not responsible for what humans choose to do with the earth because humans have dominion and free will to choose.

The atheist position cannot be supported with logic and reason, it is all based upon emotion: I don't like cancer and God is a bad God because cancer exists.

 

[Trailblazer]

He's discussing your beliefs not his. It's pretty clear, a suspicious person might think you are using misdirection.

No way Jose. He is discussing HIS beliefs. Those are not MY beliefs. I don't believe that God is responsible for things that occur on this earth.

 

[John53]

Some (but not all) atheists blame God for everything they don't like.

Do you know what an atheist is?

If the answer is yes then how could you keep making this statement?

 

[John53]

No way Jose. He is discussing HIS beliefs. Those are not MY beliefs. I don't believe that God is responsible for things that occur on this earth.

And that's what he is asking you to explain. How hard is it to understand? Asking a question isn't claiming that is what you believe. It's asking you!!!

If you were to ask me if I believe the tooth fairy is responsible for tooth decay under your logic I'd have to assume you were claiming it is.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you know what an atheist is?

If the answer is yes then how could you keep making this statement?

I know what an atheist is, a person who does not believe that God exists.
If God does not exist then God cannot be responsible for anything, yet some atheists are saying tat God is responsible for everything they don't like.

To say this is all hypothetical, if God existed then God would be x, won't work, because if God does not exist there can be no x.

This is logic 101 stuff.

 

[Truthseeker]

Who or what set the evolutionary process in motion?

First, God created the universe. Then after 9 billion years or so the earth formed. After a time maybe one billion years the first cell came into existence. Over a long time there were only single cells, then several hundred billion years ago multicell creatures came into being. Over time many creatures evolved, finally homo sapiens came into being 300,000 ago or so. So, since God created the universe and cancer was part of that evolution, perhaps indirecly God caused cancer. This is complicated by the quantum process in material things that seemingly is probablistic.

 

[John53]

If God does not exist then God cannot be responsible for anything

Exactly.

, yet some atheists are saying tat God is responsible for everything they don't like.

No they don't, you keep misunderstanding and misquoting them

To say this is all hypothetical, if God existed then God would be x, won't work, because if God does not exist there can be no x.

Then there can be very little discussion.

This is logic 101 stuff.

Yet you don't understand it or a suspicious person might suspect you are using it as misdirection to get the subject away from a question you don't want to answer.

 

[Truthseeker]

This still doesn't work IF your God is omnipotent and omnipresent, because it would know if what it creates will eventually create genetic faults that cause suffering, even to the innocent. Either the God is just a Deist sort of God, so not a personal God like Christians claim, or it is inept, or it's cruel, or it's not quite what Christians think it is. In any event, the God is no more moral or decent than an indifferent universe that has no gods.

Theists keep trying to wrangle a way to keep the good in how they explain their God, but it can't ever work out the way they want it when we look at reality.

The question is, is God responsible for seems to be probablistic. Who knows? My son is autistic and can't even talk at 33. Even if he did indirectly cause that, I don't hold a grudge against Him for that. Maybe He is responsible, but he's a sweet kid. I know, this is different than cancer where there is a painful death, but for the person that dies, there is eventually an end to his suffering on earth, then infinity of time after that. For the ones left behind, like probably @Trailblazer, there is grief. That's something different. This will be a difficult time for her. There will be friends like me, and local friends that will help her afterwards. Eventually we all die, and we sail off to an infinity of time after that.

 

[John53]

The question is, is God responsible for seems to be probablistic. Who knows? My son is autistic and can't even talk at 33. Even if he did indirectly cause that, I don't hold a grudge against Him for that. Maybe He is responsible, but he's a sweet kid. I know, this is different than cancer where there is a painful death, but for the person that dies, there is eventually an end to his suffering on earth, then infinity of time after that. For the ones left behind, like probably @Trailblazer, there is grief. That's something different. This will be a difficult time for her. There will be friends like me, and local friends that will help her afterwards. Eventually we all die, and we sail off to an infinity of time after that.

Great explanation of how you feel. That's all that is being asked. We may not agree but at least you gave an answer without falsely accusing the question asker. Thank you.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nobody creates cancer. Cancer has many causes. Cancer develops for many different reasons. Sometimes human free will choices are a factor in why it develops. e.g., lung cancer can be traced back to smoking since smoking has been linked to lung cancer. However, people who smoked all their lives might never get lung cancer while another person who never smoked got cancer.

You are right, but why does a two year old child gets leukemia?

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. God is responsible for cancer.

So, you agree that your loving God created Cancer, your loving God created Covid, your loving God created monkeypox .. The list is endless. Well, you can keep your loving God to yourself. I do not need him.

 

[CG Didymus]

They don't, you misinterpret their posts. You're wrong.

I don't get it? The OP is "Atheists" if this supposed God existed what would he do and what would the world be like? Well, obviously, it wouldn't look like this. So, it is very likely those that believe in some type of the Abrahamic God are wrong. But then answering the question, the God supporters have to come up with sensible reasons why the God they say they believe has made the world as it is.

 

[CG Didymus]

I imagine for the same reason you ask atheists questions. For the sake of discussion.

I'm glad atheists ask the hard questions. Too long religious leaders have essentially forced their beliefs on people. Baha'is try to be a little nicer about, but they're still saying that what they believe is "The Truth"... and that makes it something that deserves to be questioned.

 

[CG Didymus]

So you think God isn't responsible for nature?

Exactly what do you think God is responsible for?

I wonder... for Baha'is... is God in control? Is everything turning out exactly how he planned? Or did he just create everything and let things play out any which way? I would imagine, since he knows what people will do and has the ability to guide people in the right direction, that everything is going just how he planned it. Or, if there is not a God as believed by Baha'is, that some forces are at work that have caused things to come into being. And some people claim it must be some invisible, divine creator.

 

[F1fan]

The question is, is God responsible for seems to be probablistic. Who knows? My son is autistic and can't even talk at 33. Even if he did indirectly cause that, I don't hold a grudge against Him for that. Maybe He is responsible, but he's a sweet kid. I know, this is different than cancer where there is a painful death, but for the person that dies, there is eventually an end to his suffering on earth, then infinity of time after that. For the ones left behind, like probably @Trailblazer, there is grief. That's something different. This will be a difficult time for her. There will be friends like me, and local friends that will help her afterwards. Eventually we all die, and we sail off to an infinity of time after that.

Your situation is an example of how religious belief can cause some inner conflict, because the question is ever present as you work to maintain your faith. The whole literalist interpretation of Genesis is a Christian problem, and one they surely didn't think through when they started this approach. Even Jews don't interpret Genesis literally, and it's their book.

Atheists certainly have an advantage to not suffer through any reconciliation between the promises within a religion to the harsh reality of the lottery of life. Life is hard enough. I don't envy those having adopted a religious framework that does not correlate to reality, as this thrusts the mind into more turmoil and needs to cope. It rips a soul apart. Irony.

 

[CG Didymus]

Fear and indoctrination. What can you do?

Again, so ironic that Baha'is say they believe in science and reason. Until it comes to questioning their concept of God.