Atheists: If God existed would God……

[John53]

Open your eyes and see that some atheists are holding God responsible for everything they don't like, namely all the suffering in the world.

For the 100th time you are wrong. To blame God would require believing God exists which means they wouldn't be atheists.

 

[Trailblazer]

However asking a believer about their God is valid especially when they have asked for atheists to contribute in the thread title!

Do you see any atheists asking believers about our God?

 

[F1fan]

That is not true. Baha'is do not believe we have the only truth from God, we believe that we have the latest truth from God. I am surprised that you don't know that given all the years you have been conversing with Baha'is on this forum.

It is the Christians who believe they have the only truth from God.

Oh the irony. If you think you have the "latest" truth that implies it supersedes and invalidates older versions. That means Bahai is the only "valid" version of truth.

There can be discussion about God without blaming God.

But claims about God will be questioned when there are real dilemmas between the claim of "truth" and reality. If theists really have a valid truth there should be answers that are rational and satisfying. They are neither.

In fact, atheists might actually learn something about God if they would listen to believers.

We learn that God is less and less plausible given what believers say.

 

[John53]

No worries. We will all be judged not only by our belief in God but alos by our deeds.
By the prayers of others and the mercy of God atheists can come to recognize God in the next world.

It's a nice sentiment and if that comforts you then I guess that's a good thing. I think we have 1 life and that's it.

 

[John53]

Do you see any atheists asking believers about our God?

Yes

 

[F1fan]

Ask the oncologist. He may or may not know.

The oncologist knows it is in the genes that the child got from parents.

Now, the oncologist won't explain why believers think a God isn't responsible for creating the genes of a miracle.

I guess talk to God's lawyer.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh the irony. If you think you have the "latest" truth that implies it supersedes and invalidates older versions. That means Bahai is the only "valid" version of truth.

No, if we believe we have the latest truth because we believe that Baha'u'llah was the latest Messenger of God and as such what He revealed supersedes what was revealed in the past.

That does not mean that the Baha'i Faith is the only "valid" version of truth. Baha'is believe that the spiritual truths of all the religions are true and they are eternal. Only the message from God is new, and the social teachings and laws have been updated.

 

[Trailblazer]

The oncologist knows it is in the genes that the child got from parents.

Now, the oncologist won't explain why believers think a God isn't responsible for creating the genes of a miracle.

I guess talk to God's lawyer.

The genes may or may not be the cause of the cancer. There are many other reasons that people get cancer.

God does not need a lawyer so God has no lawyer.

Apparently it does something for you to blame God instead of looking at the real cause, or the perpetrator if there is one.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ask the oncologist. He may or may not know.

But you aid all good and evil in the world is created by God.

 

[Truthseeker]

Your situation is an example of how religious belief can cause some inner conflict, because the question is ever present as you work to maintain your faith. The whole literalist interpretation of Genesis is a Christian problem, and one they surely didn't think through when they started this approach. Even Jews don't interpret Genesis literally, and it's their book.

Atheists certainly have an advantage to not suffer through any reconciliation between the promises within a religion to the harsh reality of the lottery of life. Life is hard enough. I don't envy those having adopted a religious framework that does not correlate to reality, as this thrusts the mind into more turmoil and needs to cope. It rips a soul apart. Irony.

I feel no inner conflict within my faith. Atheists often are put into a position where they have something really hard to live with, and they have no source of inner consolation within themselves, and they are in a situation where there just seems a cold, pitiless universe not caring about them, it seems to them. Baha'u'llah said:

51. O SON OF MAN!
My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy. Hasten thereunto that thou mayest become an eternal light and an immortal spirit. This is My command unto thee, do thou observe it.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

Those who don't know that there is light and mercy within them and can't find them are in a bad way.

 

[F1fan]

No, if we believe we have the latest truth because we believe that Baha'u'llah was the latest Messenger of God and as such what He revealed supersedes what was revealed in the past.

You believe, and you could be wrong. You can't demonstrate any convincing truth. Plus I have read some quotes from your guru that are simply wrong in modern times. And the claims about God does not correspond to what we know of reality, so the truth you claims is faulty, and we doubt what you believe.

That does not mean that the Baha'i Faith is the only "valid" version of truth. Baha'is believe that the spiritual truths of all the religions are true and they are eternal. Only the message from God is new, and the social teachings and laws have been updated.

I don't see anything useful in it. What Bahai believers are trying to do is counter to they mission of unity, so that's a huge negative.

 

[Truthseeker]

Again, the Baha'is demand that a person investigates the truth for themselves. Baha'is say that science and religion go hand and hand. Without science, religion falls into a bunch of superstitious beliefs. What atheists have shown to Baha'is... is that their belief in God and in his messengers is unprovable scientifically.

That shows another misunderstanding. Science in the sense of using facts of the material world wll never prove the existence of God for Baha'i's. You are so blind to spiritual realities! I feel sorry for you.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you aid all good and evil in the world is created by God.

No, that is not what I said.

I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

 

[F1fan]

I feel no inner conflict within my faith.

I'm sure that is what you have little choice but to tell yourself. What is your other option, admit that the concepts of your religion cause you stress? Of course not, you dealve deeper in the concepts and work harder to maintain the illusion. The effort seems to be a sort of reward, but it really an exercise in deluding the self that an illusion is true.

Atheists often are put into a position where they have something really hard to live with, and they have no source of inner consolation within themselves, and they are in a situation where there just seems a cold, pitiless universe not caring about them, it seems to them.

False. Atheists rely on the same things that anyone else does, family, friends, strangers, and even clergy can be helpful AS humans. Theists have a framework of illusion ready to go, and that might help them cope to some degree, but most of our lives are not lived in trauma and in need of an illusion to get lost in for a distraction from the anxiety of life. Atheists have the inner strength to live life without the illusion of religion, and we do fantastic with this freedom.

Those who don't know that there is light and mercy within them and can't find them are in a bad way.

Right, atheists know they have inner strength and don't need to believe in religious concepts like Gods. What do Gods do anyway? In the end the mortal has to pull themselves up with help from actual people. Theists who are alone with a God will find the experience lonely.

 

[Trailblazer]

51. O SON OF MAN!
My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy. Hasten thereunto that thou mayest become an eternal light and an immortal spirit. This is My command unto thee, do thou observe it.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

Those who don't know that there is light and mercy within them and can't find them are in a bad way.

That is a hard pill to swallow, especially right now. Never mind me, I don't care if I suffer, been there, done that, but how is it light and mercy for Lewis to have to suffer this way?

 

[Truthseeker]

And I thank God for people like you and the doctor who was managing his stay at the hospital this week. He just talked to me for over two hours on the phone and he was apologizing to me for not having understood my position sooner. I am not trying to keep Lewis alive for myself, I just want to do all I can do for Lewis. We had a plan for that but Lewis has declined any further treatment so it is out of my hands. I am accepting that.

I explained everything that happened to Lewis and he had all the records and was verifying them. This doctor suspects that the health care team dropped the ball and misdiagnosed and mismanaged Lewis' case. Lewis did not have to die. That is what is so painful. He agrees I should pursue litigation and do even more. He told me exactly what I have to do now to try to get justice. I can explain more about that in our conversation or on the phone.

Go after Justice! I guess it would be more appropriate now to talk to me more than Sara now.

 

[F1fan]

That shows another misunderstanding. Science in the sense of using facts of the material world wll never prove the existence of God for Baha'i's. You are so blind to spiritual realities! I feel sorry for you.

It sounds like you are feeling self-pity. Why would a grounded and spiritual person feel pity for a person who acknowledges there is no evidentiary reason to believe any God exists? Even you can't show any evidence. If anything a grounded and spiritual person would applaud a person for using their reason to such a high level.

 

[Trailblazer]

You believe, and you could be wrong.

or we could be right, in which case......

I don't see anything useful in it. What Bahai believers are trying to do is counter to they mission of unity, so that's a huge negative.

No, it is not counter to unity. There can be unity in diversity.

BEAUTY AND HARMONY IN DIVERSITY

 

[Trailblazer]

Go after Justice! I guess it would be more appropriate now to talk to me more than Sara now.

This is a process that will unfold and there is no hurry, but Dr. Z recommended that I write everything up so I will have it ready to submit to the appropriate people (3 places).

 

[Trailblazer]

Go after Justice! I guess it would be more appropriate now to talk to me more than Sara now.

I was going to call you but it is kind of late now, later where you live.