Atheists: If God existed would God……

[Trailblazer]

I don't even believe that a god exists. I am just extrapolating logical entailments from the depictions of a god by believers.

Are you actually unaware of the hypothetical?

You are saying what you would expect God to do if God exists....

NONE of this is coming from believers because we don't believe that God would do anything that you expect God would do if God existed.

For example, God would never convince anyone that He exists...
God would never provide proof of His existence because God wants our faith.

The reason God does not prove He exists is because God wants our faith. If God proved He exists then we would no longer need faith.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

We must first believe that it is possible for God to exist, and that requires faith since no man has ever seen God.

God will reward those who earnestly seek Him with the evidence they need to believe, but God will not force anyone to accept the evidence. That is a choice.

 

[ChristineM]

He deflected just as I told you he would, and he continues to deflect.
I am not the one who is deluding myself. He expects that if God existed God would do what He expects God to do if God exists...
This hypothetical crap is just a smokescreen.

No you didn't tell me that

He "hypothetically" expects because he is having fun, you are not, which you have already admitted and you are trying to belittle your opponent because you are getting nowhere. And why is that? Because its a hypothetical discussion on @Policy side and you don't even realise it or admit it.

I honestly think you are becoming obsessed with winning a worthless argument that you are blind to both the definition and reality of atheism.

You asked me to give it up for lost... I have lost nothing but i will give it up because i don't like to see you suffer so.

Bye

 

[Heyo]

I would be a millionaire if I had a dollar for every time an atheist asked me for evidence that God exists. If they don't care why do they ask?

I don't know about others but I love logic. And when someone says that they can prove god logically, they are giving logic a bad name. Can't let that happen.
So, I really don't care what you believe, just don't say you know when you can't.

 

[Trailblazer]

No you didn't tell me that

He "hypothetically" expects because he is having fun, you are not, which you have already admitted and you are trying to belittle your opponent because you are getting nowhere.

I never said any such thing. Those are YOUR words.

And why is that? Because its a hypothetical discussion on @Policy side and you don't even realise it or admit it.

I know the discussion is hypothetical... Look at my OP. Atheists: If God existed would God……

So what if it is hypothetical? That is not a get out of jail free card.
I can say if my husband really loves me he would do the dishes... Maybe be loves me or maybe he doesn't but I expect him to do the dishes if he loves me...

Policy expects that God would convince him that He exists if God exists. He said it in his post:

If someone tells me that a God exists and that it wants me to know it exists, and it's all-powerful, and all knowing, then I don't believe them because if such an entity existed I would expect it to have already convinced me that it exists. Again, nothing to do with want.
#867 Policy, Today at 1:52 PM

Bye.

 

[ppp]

NONE of this is coming from believers because we don't believe that God would do anything that you expect God would do if God existed.

Having been a believer and talking to believers in the here and now, I know that this is a false statement.

 

[ChristineM]

I never said any such thing. Those are YOUR words.

I know the discussion is hypothetical... Look at my OP. Atheists: If God existed would God……

So what if it is hypothetical? That is not a get out of jail free card.
I can say if my husband really loves me he would do the dishes... Maybe be loves me or maybe he doesn't but I expect him to do the dishes if he loves me...

Policy expects that God would convince him that He exists if God exists. He said it in his post:

If someone tells me that a God exists and that it wants me to know it exists, and it's all-powerful, and all knowing, then I don't believe them because if such an entity existed I would expect it to have already convinced me that it exists. Again, nothing to do with want.
#867 Policy, Today at 1:52 PM

Bye.

@Trailblazer i quote you

This hypothetical crap is just a smokescreen

This is getting to you. Give it up as a lost cause and stop trying to deceive yourself that you are dishing it out to the atheist. Such hatred is not like you

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know about others but I love logic. And when someone says that they can prove god logically, they are giving logic a bad name. Can't let that happen.

I never ever said I can prove God exists logically... Some Baha'is believe that but I do not.
Dozens of times I have said that God can never be proven to exist and dozens of times I have said that logical arguments cannot be used to prove that God or Messengers of God exist.

So, I really don't care what you believe, just don't say you know when you can't.

You cannot tell me what I know since you are not me. I do not tell you what you know.
Nobody can tell me what I know since nobody can know what I know or how I know it.

I do not need proof to know that God exists. How many times do I have to say this, 100, 1000, 1,000,000 times?

The question people should be asking themselves is why what I know bothers them so much.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is getting to you. Give it up as a lost cause and stop trying to deceive yourself that you are dishing it out to the atheist. Such hatred is not like you

Give it up as a lost is not hatred. I hate no atheists or anyone else. I just lose my patience sometimes as we all do.

After I have asked a question more than two times and I still do not get an answer I sometimes lose my patience. Go back and look at the questions I asked Policy and how he did not answer them. Ask yourself why he cannot answer such simple questions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Having been a believer and talking to believers in the here and now, I know that this is a false statement.

Can you give me some examples of believers saying that God would do anything that you expect?
Did any believer ever say that God would convince you that He exists?
I have no idea where you are coming from.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

How would God communicating to humans directly solve these problems?
It would not do a thing because nobody could ever understand God communicating to them directly.
But you are free to entertain your fantasies.

You keep harping on that particular "excuse".....have you ever been asked WHY nobody could understand what God was saying to them?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Give it up as a lost is not hatred. I hate no atheists or anyone else. I just lose my patience sometimes as we all do.

After I have asked a question more than two times and I still do not get an answer I sometimes lose my patience. Go back and look at the questions I asked Policy and how he did not answer them. Ask yourself why he cannot answer such simple questions.

Mebbie your questions are framed in the same sort of irrational logic that our shared fanatic on another forum uses and then wonders why no one is answering them.
Point a couple of your questions MY way, and lemme see what I can do with them.

 

[CG Didymus]

Having been a believer and talking to believers in the here and now, I know that this is a false statement.

My favorite proof is Elijah having God send fire from heaven. The people that believed in a different God couldn't. So, of course, God had Elijah kill all the prophets of the false God. But who's going to trust God to do that now? A Christian? A Baha'i? The easy way out, the way most Baha'is take, is that those Bible stories didn't really happen. That's too bad, because it makes the Bible virtually useless at knowing and believing in God.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

My favorite proof is Elijah having God send fire from heaven. The people that believed in a different God couldn't. So, of course, God had Elijah kill all the prophets of the false God. But who's going to trust God to do that now? A Christian? A Baha'i? The easy way out, the way most Baha'is take, is that those Bible stories didn't really happen. That's too bad, because it makes the Bible virtually useless at knowing and believing in God.

You just answered the question I was ABOUT to ask. Not JUST that particular incident, but many other such incidents which defy logic and reason, are contained in that bible, and to my knowledge, NO ONE has every really come up with a sensible explanation FOR them. It's kinda like that is what the nomadic, indigent, uneducated, Goat-Ropers wrote, and (we believers) believe that they knew what they were writing about.

 

[CG Didymus]

A little heads up here
Atheists do not, i repeat NOT, expect a mythical being to do anything. You are the one pushing the idea of atheists want this and that. Then blaming atheists for no doing what you dictate they should do.

I will repeat one last time, after this i im done

Atheist : person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

No, but wait. I have a question hypothetical question for you too. If... a God like the one I'm imagining existed, what would it have to do to convince you that it is real? I guess I should tell you a little bit about my imaginary God. It only talks to special people once every few hundred years. Other than that, nobody sees or hears from him until the next special guy appears. This imaginary God doesn't want to talk to you or appear to you. The only way you can know anything about him is through his special messengers. So, what would it take to convince this imaginary God is real? The answer is below. But don't cheat. I really want to hear your dumb, oops, scratch that, I mean your well thought out reasoned wrong answers.


(The only acceptable answer is... Nothing. If you don't like what my God has given you... tough.)

 

[F1fan]

Doesn't it?
@Sheldon has a fallacy for everything he doesn't agree with

He's well educated, and good debater. If he's wrong you are free to write a rebuttal and explain how his assessment is in error. Have you done that?

In religious debate theists are at a big disadvantage since they tend to be the affirmative of religious ideas, and these ideas are notorious for lacking evidence and often are contrary to fact. So theists often make logical errors trying to wrangle some reply. Fallacies are pointed out.

 

[Trailblazer]

You keep harping on that particular "excuse".....have you ever been asked WHY nobody could understand what God was saying to them?

No, but I have explained why nobody could understand what God was saying to them, many, many times. You are free to accept or reject my explanation, it makes no difference to me.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

You are saying what you would expect God to do if God exists....

I don't think that is really what he said...but rather how YOU are interpreting it.

NONE of this is coming from believers because we don't believe that God would do anything that you expect God would do if God existed.

So now you are speaking for ALL "believers", correct?

For example, God would never convince anyone that He exists...

You feel safe in making that proclamation, simply because God has NOT tried to "convince" anyone that He exists. Doesn't mean that God would actually NEVER do that....so now you're speaking for God too?

God would never provide proof of His existence because God wants our faith.

Again, you are really only saying that because God has NOT made any effort to prove to anyone that He exists....NOT that He NEVER would. Never is a verrrrryyyyyy long time, ya know?

The reason God does not prove He exists is because God wants our faith. If God proved He exists then we would no longer need faith.

That has got to be one of the goofiest comments I think I have come across in a loooooong time.

Hebrews 11:6

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

Other than that being a "logical" statement, It is really kind of pointless in this kind of a discussion

We must first believe that it is possible for God to exist, and that requires faith since no man has ever seen God.

Actually there HAVE been scriptures posted on that BUE forum that explicitly declare that such and such SAW and SPOKE with God...and LIVED!

God will reward those who earnestly seek Him with the evidence they need to believe, but God will not force anyone to accept the evidence. That is a choice.

I take it that you are unaware of HOW God got Kind David to come around to His way of thinking....and you surely cannot forget all the pain and suffering God put that Egyptian Pharaoh through just to get HIM to change his mind.
God has His ways......so don't say God wouldn't and doesn't "force"/"coerce" those who oppose Him to change their minds.
The very scripture attributed to this God that proclaims if you believe, you get to live.....if you don't believe, you die, is the very epitome of coercion, if you ask me.

 

[F1fan]

Me !
Well, I consider myself as part of the universe, and I think that I have been blessed with an intellect.

You are a part of the universe, and you as an individual do not represent the whole universe, which includes billions of galaxies. As a metaphor you to the universe is less than a spec of dust in your house.

I always find it interesting how theists often inflate themselves as if they see themselves as God themselves, but are not consciously aware of this.

 

[CG Didymus]

You just answered the question I was ABOUT to ask. Not JUST that particular incident, but many other such incidents which defy logic and reason, are contained in that bible, and to my knowledge, NO ONE has every really come up with a sensible explanation FOR them. It's kinda like that is what the nomadic, indigent, uneducated, Goat-Ropers wrote, and (we believers) believe that they knew what they were writing about.

Yeah, everybody had great stories back then. And some of the Gods got down and personal with people. What's up with this Baha'i God. He's too "Holy" to come down and hang with us?

But all those people that believe in a different God... Those concepts of God aren't real. So, who are they praying to? An idea in their head? But the Baha'i unknowable, invisible God is real? It doesn't even have to be real to have the same effect. People believe and follow the rules... All on faith.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

No, but I have explained why nobody could understand what God was saying to them, many, many times. You are free to accept or reject my explanation, it makes no difference to me.

Well humor me then and repeat it here if you don't mind. I speak fluent English and some broken Español...surely God is fluent in ONE of them, wouldn't ya think?