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Atheists: If there's no God, then where did the word "God" come from?

Demonslayer

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
Willamena said:
You can say it's preposterous without talking behind his back.
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He's free to come defend himself, I'm saying what I'm saying straight out. I don't see how any post to a public message board is "talking behind his back."

I get it, you're saying "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." That's all well and good, I just don't personally agree with that philosophy. I think if we see something stupid we should feel free to call it stupid. I'm not saying be excessively cruel about it, but I'm not a big fan of the 'don't offend anyone' philosophy. As long as I'm not being overly insulting I think it's fine to tell someone their idea is bunk.
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
leibowde84 said:
So, then the mother can still teach them how to suck, then. The mother doesn't teach the baby linguistically. They do so physically. So, even though these people would never be able to speak, there are many other ways to teach them things. Think of all the deaf people in the world.
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I'm only part of the way through this thread so I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but a mother cannot teach a baby how to suck. A mother can position the baby's mouth, get a tongue tie clipped, use a nipple shield or stroke the baby's throat, all to create a proper latch and/or successful suck, but a baby, from birth, when put on a nipple (well or poorly) will suck without instruction unless there is a serious problem with the baby (a developmental issue which cannot be address through education). Lactation consultants and LLL exist to help make for better latches and ensure that physical issues can be addressed, but no one teaches a baby how to suck and a woman who never breast fed when SHE was a child (who would then, theoretically be unable to teach it to a newborn due to lack of her own experience) can breastfeed successfully with no help.

I'm not saying that the suck motion is an inborn instinct or a muscular reflex due to an external stimulus, but it certainly isn't learned.
--------a nice interlude story--------------
“The patient, a new mother, was in the ICU, unconscious and on a ventilator following a seizure and brain herniation from pregnancy-induced hypertension. Her baby was in the newborn nursery. I had just returned from a three-day, skin-to-skin bonding program. I brought her baby up to the ICU, unwrapped him and removed his T-shirt. I lowered the patient’s hospital gown and placed the baby skin-too skin on her chest. Before I placed the baby on her chest, I called her by name and told her that her son was here. It was a good chance to put into practice what I had just learned.

The baby spent several minutes lying cheek to chest on his mother. Several times, he attempted to make eye contact with his mother, adjusting his position and trying to see her. But, the ventilator tube always obstructed his view. After about 30 minutes, the baby had positioned himself on his mother’s chest so that he was able to latch onto her breast and breastfeed successfully. As he suckled, his left hand was on the ventilator tube pushing it ever so slightly to remove it from his line of sight to his mother’s face. He gazed up at her lovingly...

http://www.justbreastfeeding.com/breastfeeding/skin-skin-kangaroo-care-newborn-baby/
 
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rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
Let us see when it is included in The Oxford English Dictionary: 20 Volume Set and CD-ROM [With CDROM] , Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary (Book & CD ROM) , Chambers Dictionary , etc, etc. Kindly inform them of the new word. Please
Regards
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Are you establishing the OED as the final arbiter of what are words? If so, you should realize that, according to the OED, words are created by humans every year.
http://public.oed.com/the-oed-today...ed/june-2015-update/new-words-list-june-2015/
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
rosends said:
I'm only part of the way through this thread so I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but a mother cannot teach a baby how to suck. A mother can position the baby's mouth, get a tongue tie clipped, use a nipple shield or stroke the baby's throat, all to create a proper latch and/or successful suck, but a baby, from birth, when put on a nipple (well or poorly) will suck without instruction unless there is a serious problem with the baby (a developmental issue which cannot be address through education). Lactation consultants and LLL exist to help make for better latches and ensure that physical issues can be addressed, but no one teaches a baby how to suck and a woman who never breast fed when SHE was a child (who would then, theoretically be unable to teach it to a newborn due to lack of her own experience) can breastfeed successfully with no help.

I'm not saying that the suck motion is an inborn instinct or a muscular reflex due to an external stimulus, but it certainly isn't learned.
--------a nice interlude story--------------
“The patient, a new mother, was in the ICU, unconscious and on a ventilator following a seizure and brain herniation from pregnancy-induced hypertension. Her baby was in the newborn nursery. I had just returned from a three-day, skin-to-skin bonding program. I brought her baby up to the ICU, unwrapped him and removed his T-shirt. I lowered the patient’s hospital gown and placed the baby skin-too skin on her chest. Before I placed the baby on her chest, I called her by name and told her that her son was here. It was a good chance to put into practice what I had just learned.

The baby spent several minutes lying cheek to chest on his mother. Several times, he attempted to make eye contact with his mother, adjusting his position and trying to see her. But, the ventilator tube always obstructed his view. After about 30 minutes, the baby had positioned himself on his mother’s chest so that he was able to latch onto her breast and breastfeed successfully. As he suckled, his left hand was on the ventilator tube pushing it ever so slightly to remove it from his line of sight to his mother’s face. He gazed up at her lovingly...

http://www.justbreastfeeding.com/breastfeeding/skin-skin-kangaroo-care-newborn-baby/
Click to expand...
According to the sources I've read, this is incorrect. All of the things you mentioned (stroking throat, nipple thing, etc.) are methods of teaching the baby to suck. It is a learned reflex. But, it can easily be seen that babies aren't born with the ability to drink milk, as, for the majority of mothers, it is a painful, imperfect process.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
A good question.
Regards
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Can you answer the following question from Rosends? I am very curious as to why you asked about the OED.

rosends said:
So when you asked "Let us see when it is included in The Oxford English Dictionary: 20 Volume Set and CD-ROM [With CDROM] , Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary (Book & CD ROM) , " that was in no ways a statement that the inclusion would validate it as a word -- that was just an unrelated request because you are curious?
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rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
leibowde84 said:
According to the sources I've read, this is incorrect. All of the things you mentioned (stroking throat, nipple thing, etc.) are methods of teaching the baby to suck. It is a learned reflex. But, it can easily be seen that babies aren't born with the ability to drink milk, as, for the majority of mothers, it is a painful, imperfect process.
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The pain comes from ain improper latch or a weak suck, not from no suck. Those techniques do not teach sucking. They improve positioning. The fact that they are often not necessary shows that the skill is either muscular reflex or inborn knowledge.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
rosends said:
The pain comes from ain improper latch or a weak suck, not from no suck. Those techniques do not teach sucking. They improve positioning. The fact that they are often not necessary shows that the skill is either muscular reflex or inborn knowledge.
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I think this is interesting, but I think this is getting way off topic. We were discussing how inherent reflexes could exist without some sort of God putting them there, I think.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
George-ananda said:
Physical things (like humans) can't create ex-nihilo (out of nothing). It does argue that something not what we understand as physical must exist.
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We do all the time, George. Human animals are well known for taking non-physical ideas, figuring out how to make them physically viable and then setting about creating the item from available materials. Artists are a very good example of what I am meaning.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
YmirGF said:
We do all the time, George. Human animals are well known for taking non-physical ideas, figuring out how to make them physically viable and then setting about creating the item from available materials. Artists are a very good example of what I am meaning.
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But, artists are still creating from other physical substances like paint, plaster, marble, etc. Even music is created by putting together certain audio vibrations together in an ordered (and sometimes not ordered) way. Don't you agree? And, for all we know, even our imagination might someday be located physically in the brain.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
leibowde84 said:
But, artists are still creating from other physical substances like paint, plaster, marble, etc. Even music is created by putting together certain audio vibrations together in an ordered (and sometimes not ordered) way. Don't you agree? And, for all we know, even our imagination might someday be located physically in the brain.
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And some day we may learn how to literally create an atom. Jus' sayin'...
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
YmirGF said:
We do all the time, George. Human animals are well known for taking non-physical ideas, figuring out how to make them physically viable and then setting about creating the item from available materials. Artists are a very good example of what I am meaning.
Click to expand...
This is a misunderstanding. I was just referring to the universe itself being created ex-nihilo at that point in the conversation.
 
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