ATHEISTS ONLY: The 'problem' of Islam

[darkendless]

Im not concerned with Islam, one God is no better or worse than another. My fear is the isolation they seem to enjoy. I'm quite a patriot of culture, and i find their refusal to integrate into my community insulting. I am strongly against Muslims (and anyone else) comming to this country and trying to live as though it were Saudi Arabia (or another religious place). It is not fair that Muslims can ask for some form of Sharia law. We have laws, take them for EXACTLY what they are or leave. If you immigrate you accept the laws of the country, you do not kick up a storm.

After the Cronulla riots ( 2005 Cronulla riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) here in Oz there has been a huge backlash against Muslims. The riots were Australia's way of saying "respect and love the flag or eff off."
My view is lack of patriotism can only go so far. Whether we acknowledge it or not we will always protect our culture, and the riots were an example of that. Lifesavers are an icon of Australia. I mean you should see the protests kicked up about Islamic schools. For one they separate muslims and non-muslims. Two: whats wrong with our education, does Allah not approve? Three: They're a waste of money to build and run. Our culture is who we are, and we should not let it be watered down for anyone. No religious group is special, live with the country or fly back to where you came from

For the record i'm this nice to any group of people, please do not think im targeting Muslims here. I love you guys, i just wish there weren't the barriers of faith that seems to plague us and keep us so far apart in our own country. There are exceptions to the rule, and these exceptions need to help the rest of them to become just like every other Australian. Im sure muslims would find that we don't care what they worship at home or what they wear on their head

 

[Japaholic]

Religions on the whole don't really interest me.

Why on earth do you come to a Religious Forum for then? To goad people? To mock the 95% of earth inhabitants that do believe in a devine being in one form or another?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is this not a sub-forum on Atheism? Why should the theist come here?

 

[Japaholic]

Is this not a sub-forum on Atheism? Why should the theist come here?

Yes you are right, but it is INSIDE a site called religious forums. If one has no interest in religion, whatever angle you come from, why come here?

 

[frg001]

Yes you are right, but it is INSIDE a site called religious forums. If one has no interest in religion, whatever angle you come from, why come here?

Maybe I put it badly. What religious people do doesn't concern me other than when they affect the rights of the FAR MORE than 5% of people who do not believe in a supernatural deity (Not to mention other religions, and minorities)
However, I am interested to learn why people have this belief in magic whilst living in modern society. I really struggle to comprehend it sometimes.

However I am not here to mock, just observe and pose questions. I once made a post saying that although I am an atheist, I feel quite spiritual (for want of a better word). I love nature, and the facinating vastness of the universe. I care for peoples feelings, and rights.
I meditate often and even if I don't believe in a magical superbeing/creator, I do believe in humanity.

I still haven't found an answer to the original question though, and maybe there isn't one.

 

[frg001]

Just to add. Here is an interesting article comparing Belief in a god, to intelligence.

Makes quite a bit of sense IMO...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-'less-likely-to-believe-in-God'.html

 

[Breathe]

Actually, I disagree with this finding.

Some of stupidest people I've met and know are atheists, and some of the smartest people I know are theists.

I myself believe in some form of Deity, but I ain't stupid. Some people may be stupid, but this study should just go where it belongs - in the trash. Such concepts of "religious people = dumb, non-religious people = smart" is just more codswallop and fuel for anti-religious bigotry.

 

[Panda]

Actually, I disagree with this finding.

Some of stupidest people I've met and know are atheists, and some of the smartest people I know are theists.

I myself believe in some form of Deity, but I ain't stupid. Some people may be stupid, but this study should just go where it belongs - in the trash. Such concepts of "religious people = dumb, non-religious people = smart" is just more codswallop and fuel for anti-religious bigotry.

Sorry but it is a scientifically proven fact that on average atheists have a higher IQ than theists. It isn't really up for debate.

 

[Breathe]

Sorry but it is a scientifically proven fact that on average atheists have a higher IQ than theists. It isn't really up for debate.

Pft. I doubt the people running through my mind right now are smarter than me...

 

[Panda]

Pft. I doubt the people running through my mind right now are smarter than me...

It is an average, it doesn't say every atheist is smarter than every theist.

 

[Breathe]

It is an average, it doesn't say every atheist is smarter than every theist.

Nevertheless, my statement still stands; the stupidest people I've met have been atheists. The 'people' (and I use that term literally) who smashed my spine in with an iron bar because they'd been drinking when I was 14 years old, and have left me with constant pain and difficulty walking and bending down to pick up my children- they were atheists. Some of the most ill-informed people I've come across are atheists.

Some of the smartest people I've come across, are theists. Nevertheless, they may be delusional, even crazy, but they're still smarter.

First of all, one has to define what a 'theist' is. It's a very broad term. Is it one with a 'magic man'? A Sky Father? Or is it when one believes in any form of the Divine? Do Deists fall under "dumber than atheists"?

 

[frg001]

Actually, I disagree with this finding.

Some of stupidest people I've met and know are atheists, and some of the smartest people I know are theists.

I myself believe in some form of Deity, but I ain't stupid. Some people may be stupid, but this study should just go where it belongs - in the trash. Such concepts of "religious people = dumb, non-religious people = smart" is just more codswallop and fuel for anti-religious bigotry.

You see, that very response is pretty unintelligent. It is an average. Just because the average is higher doesn't make it true in all cases, and to use personal, individual examples as any form of argument about averages, is at best crappy logic, and at worst...stupid.

The average size of a penis in eastern Asia is quite a bit smaller than in the african american population. This doesn't mean that all eastern asians have a smaller penis than all african americans...obviously. Statistics are statistsics. Insurance companies use this sort of information in deciding how much to charge for health insurance, car insurance etc...doesn't mean that all 60 yr olds are less healthy than all 25 yr olds or all 18 yr old drivers are more dangerous than all 35 yr old drivers...its an average.

Makes a huge amount of sense to me that any group of (as the article mentions) highly intelligent people, such as scientists, or intellectualls, would have abandoned the old world superstitions, and magic of the paranormal...including any notions of a god. This doesn't mean to say ALL scientists and highly intelligent people have.

 

[Breathe]

You see, that very response is pretty unintelligent. It is an average. Just because the average is higher doesn't make it true in all cases, and to use personal, individual examples as any form of argument about averages, is at best crappy logic, and at worst...stupid.

As I said, the stupidest people I've met have been atheists. It has nothing to do with 'unintelligence', it's an observation - you attempted to use it to prove something, which shows that you have crappy logic. Thereby, it's showing that the case is pretty moot and unreliable if I have been able to encounter, on average, moronic atheists. If science did one where I live, perhaps then we'd have different results. How many people were tested? 30? 40? 100? 200? There's 6 billion people in this world my friend, to say theists are dumber than atheists based on an 'average' from a study is mightily unfair, and because you resorted to rudeness shows you can't take that I've had things the other way around.

The average size of a penis in eastern Asia is quite a bit smaller than in the african american population. This doesn't mean that all eastern asians have a smaller penis than all african americans...obviously. Statistics are statistsics. Insurance companies use this sort of information in deciding how much to charge for health insurance, car insurance etc...doesn't mean that all 60 yr olds are less healthy than all 25 yr olds or all 18 yr old drivers are more dangerous than all 35 yr old drivers...its an average.

Averages =/= accuracy. Not everyone has been measured, just a few. When there is a global survey based on belief vs unbelief, then you can say it's an average. Otherwise, no.

Makes a huge amount of sense to me that any group of (as the article mentions) highly intelligent people, such as scientists, or intellectualls, would have abandoned the old world superstitions, and magic of the paranormal...including any notions of a god. This doesn't mean to say ALL scientists and highly intelligent people have.

That's right - not all have. I asked for a definition of the word 'theist'. What is theist? It's a broad term. Are deists dumber than atheists? Are deists smarter than theists?

Do some more research, and come back to me - preferably without resorting to rudeness and calling me stupid again. Thanks.

 

[Troublemane]

Is it that easy to missinterpret then because that seems to be the norm doesnt it , the general consensus is that there are no Genuine Muslim states and there are no genuine Implementations of Sharia.

In that case the unalterable word of God in the Noble Quran seems to have failed.In that case we are getting a corruption that is indeed at best uneasy, at worst murderous.

Interesting! This was exactly the same argument for why communism failed, was because it wasnt being implemented properly! Or the current argument for why the Friedmannian de-regulation has lead to a complete volatilization/destabilization of the world's economies...they keep saying "oh we didnt de-regulate it enough"(!!!)

 

[frg001]

As I said, the stupidest people I've met have been atheists. It has nothing to do with 'unintelligence', it's an observation - you attempted to use it to prove something, which shows that you have crappy logic. Thereby, it's showing that the case is pretty moot and unreliable if I have been able to encounter, on average, moronic atheists. If science did one where I live, perhaps then we'd have different results. How many people were tested? 30? 40? 100? 200? There's 6 billion people in this world my friend, to say theists are dumber than atheists based on an 'average' from a study is mightily unfair, and because you resorted to rudeness shows you can't take that I've had things the other way around.


Averages =/= accuracy. Not everyone has been measured, just a few. When there is a global survey based on belief vs unbelief, then you can say it's an average. Otherwise, no.


That's right - not all have. I asked for a definition of the word 'theist'. What is theist? It's a broad term. Are deists dumber than atheists? Are deists smarter than theists?

Do some more research, and come back to me - preferably without resorting to rudeness and calling me stupid again. Thanks.

Ok. Well, I didn't intend to call "you" stupid, but your line of defence is simply logical fallacy, but anyway, no personal offence meant.
As for research? Why? I posted the link as an interesting side note. The original question remains unanswered...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The average size of a penis in eastern Asia is quite a bit smaller than in the african american population. This doesn't mean that all eastern asians have a smaller penis than all african americans...obviously.

Averages =/= accuracy. Not everyone has been measured, ...

A fact much appreciated by many, myself included ...

 

[Breathe]

Ok. Well, I didn't intend to call "you" stupid, but your line of defence is simply logical fallacy, but anyway, no personal offence meant.
As for research? Why? I posted the link as an interesting side note. The original question remains unanswered...

The way it came across seemed a bit harsh.
As for the side-note, it seemed a bit charged, really. Sorry if I seemed to lose my temper, though. I think I get what theists you mean, however, the term is a strong one. I don't believe in things like, evolution and magic man, and yes, I can understand how people with such views will have lower IQs..

 

[Breathe]

A fact much appreciated by many, myself included ...

:spit:
I can't believe you noticed that

 

[Aupmanyav]

Some of stupidest people I've met and know are atheists, and some of the smartest people I know are theists.

I myself believe in some form of Deity, but I ain't stupid.

That is what you think of yourself. Other people may have different views. I too, consider those people who believe in deities as stupid. That there are things that we do not know is acceptable. Of course, the studies also can be stupid. Theists can be equally smart or even smarter.

 

[England my lionheart]

That is what you think of yourself. Other people may have different views. I too, consider those people who believe in deities as stupid. That there are things that we do not know is acceptable. Of course, the studies also can be stupid. Theists can be equally smart or even smarter.

You are an expert of course