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Atheists reaction to Einstein Quote is good?

Sheldon

Veteran Member
We had a thread on this not so long ago.

Scientism

Scientism is the opinion that science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality.

As for refutation; fanatics are generally so heavily invested in their particular ideology, that they are impervious to argument.

In your excitement you forgot to offer a citation for scientism. ;)

Or is this just a made up term based on the subjective opinion of people, whose unevidenced religious beliefs are threatened by scientific rigour?

The thread was almost Montypythonesque, anyone who denies believing in scientism believes in scientism...:rolleyes:

Here's a Google defintion:

noun
RARE
  1. thought or expression regarded as characteristic of scientists.
    • excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques.
  2. So who decides what's excessive, what are their qualifications or expertise to decide this exactly?
Also scientism still isn't atheism.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
That's nothing to do with atheism per se. Nor is atheism an ideology. That thread exposed that many theists used the term dishonestly as well. Also a biased overconfidence in the efficacy of science was not even properly defined, though this didn't stop (how did you put it) the usual suspects from falsely throwing the term at anyone who dared argue against the way it was being misused.

Atheism is no more an ideology than not collecting stamps is a hobby.


Regardless of whether or not atheism is an ideology, it’s evident that a subset of atheists on this forum are ideologues.

Still, everyone should have a hobby; pursuing endless circuitous arguments on the internet isn’t one of mine. I’ll stick to not collecting stamps.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
As other posts point out, Einstein is on record as saying he did not believe in a personal God. So he did not believe in, say, the Abrahamic conception of God. His idea was closer to Spinoza's idea of God: a principle of the universe, not a person.

That is also my understanding that he did not believe in a personal God, but more like the 'unmoved Mover' of philosophers with no intervention. But I think it's a stretch to assume he was an atheist.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
That is also my understanding that he did not believe in a personal God, but more like the 'unmoved Mover' of philosophers with no intervention. But I think it's a stretch to assume he was an atheist.
I certainly would not claim that. It seems he had a certain mystical faith in the universe, which was in his own way, his God. (He seems to have been wrong about God not playing dice, though.:D)

But I find your link seemed to be trying to claim Einstein for religious belief in a way he would not have supported, that's all.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Regardless of whether or not atheism is an ideology,
It isn't.

it’s evident that a subset of atheists on this forum are ideologues.
Atheists can follow any ideology - as long as it doesn't require accepting the existence of gods.
Atheists can be capitalists, Liberal Democrats, socialists, Marxists. They can be conspiracy theorists, sceptics, whatever. Their atheism has nothing to do with any ideology they follow.
I am a socialist. I know socialists who believe in god. Go figure!

Still, everyone should have a hobby; pursuing endless circuitous arguments on the internet isn’t one of mine.
He said whilst engaging once again in endless circuitous arguments on the internet. :tearsofjoy:
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
That is also my understanding that he did not believe in a personal God, but more like the 'unmoved Mover' of philosophers with no intervention.
A "mover" by definition, intervenes. He was very specific about his "god". It was the laws of nature, the workings of the universe. It was not a supernatural entity that had any plans for humanity.

But I think it's a stretch to assume he was an atheist.
He was an atheist, because he rejected the gods of theism. But he didn't dismiss the idea of some impersonal, universal force behind the way the universe works - by that is not "God" in the way religions insist.
 
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KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
A truth often overlooked.
Which is why I mentioned it.
Why do you think that religious apologists never hold Darwin up as a great scientist who believed in a religious god, yet constantly try to pretend that Einstein was, when he wasn't?
I suspect it is because of the nature of their work.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
It is an idea to think, that there is no evidence for God.
Merely thinking about something doesn't qualify it as an "ideology".
For a genius and master logician, you really do struggle with the basic stuff, don't you?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Einstein was repeatedly, explicitly clear about his lack of belief in a personal, interventionist god. He dismissed organised religion and their scriptures. It's funny how religionists are so desperate to co-opt him into their fold but don't do the same with Darwin, who was genuinely a believer for much of his life.
Darwin, however, described himself as closer to agnostic than anything else, towards the end of his life:
Religious views of Charles Darwin - Wikipedia

He was not an atheist, though, that seems clear.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Darwin, however, described himself as closer to agnostic than anything else, towards the end of his life:
Which was why I said "who was genuinely a believer for much of his life"

He was not an atheist, though, that seems clear.
Don't think anyone has claimed that Darwin was an atheist.
And yet, religious apologists never hold him up as they attempt to do with Einstein, who was explicitly and scathingly dismissive of organised religion and their scripture.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Why do you think that religious apologists never hold Darwin up as a great scientist who believed in a religious god, yet constantly try to pretend that Einstein was, when he wasn't?
I suspect it is because of the nature of their work.

I don't know about 'apologists', but scholars certainly do.

To quote a professor of theology at Boston College on sacramentality.
For anything--any person, place, thing, event, any sight, sound, taste, touch, smell--anything that exists can be sacramental if one views it in its rootedness in the grace of God. So, how many sacraments are there? How many things are there in the universe?
. Grace is here. What is needed is someone to see it. What is wanted is the beholder. The entirety of Catholic liturgical life--indeed, of Catholic spiritual, intellectual, and ethical life--is geared toward producing sacramental beholders, people who see what is there in its full depth.
And I suggest to you that sacramental beholders are what Catholic universities and colleges are supposed to be producing.
Before I move on to my second point, I must clarify this statement about Catholic education with the help of one of the most remarkable Catholic intellects of this century, Frederick von Hugel. Von Hugel, who despite his Austrian name was an Englishman, was invited to address a group of religiously interested students at Oxford in 1902. In the course of his talk, he referred to the person whom he regarded as the most extraordinary example of asceticism in the century that had just ended. It must have startled his hearers to learn that von Hugel's example of asceticism, which most of them undoubtedly associated with fasting, penitential discipline and mortification, was Charles Darwin. And why Darwin, of all people? Because, Baron von Hugel said, Darwin had been willing to submit his wonderful intellectual powers and his great energy over a long period of time to the patient and painstaking observation of the development of barnacles, to the shapes of pigeons' beaks and the varieties of organisms. For asceticism is not about self-punishment; it is the gradual stripping away of the self so that one can see what is there. Not to see what one would like to be there, or what one hopes is there or fears is there, or what one has been told by others is there, but to see what is, in fact, there.
</offices/mission/meta-elements/pdf/catholicism/himes_living.pdf>
 
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